Re: FW: [CTTE #727708] Default init system for Debian
On 12/02/14 22:48, James Allsopp wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> Fair enough with this point; "a. The decision *was* made by Debian
> developers, as it should be. Those
> that do, get to make decisions about how they do 'it' - those that use,
> feel free to use elsewhere - or do their own fork instead of getting
> others to do it for them."
>
> Although I mentioned Gentoo, I've been using Debian for about 5 years
> now and like it, basing all my new linux systems on it, I just mentioned
> gentoo as contrast.
Contrast fine. Choice good. The sky is not falling, Linux (not the
kernel) will continue to change, and as sure as Mate, there will
continue to be distro/respins to scratch itches.
>
> When you say Default, the difficulty of opting out plays a factor too.
So? - balance that against the difficulty of opting in to the various
alternatives prior. The tail should not wag the dog - distros should
continue to be shaped by developers - only the popularity (for what it's
worth) should be determined by users (which is what I am).
I haven't made the commitment to become a Debian developer, but I
appreciate that being one requires a default init system to develop around.
> If something is so difficult to opt out of, *if* then becomes Debian's de
> facto system. It is a worry, perhaps there's some documentation of how
> to opt out, so I can look at this?
(emphasis and guessed spelling correction mine). Sorry, I don't have a
link I can point you at - though I'm certain there'll be plenty soon.
>
> Is there a document that summarises what developers thought the pros and
> cons of each were?
I follow the developers mailing list, there's a good summary on
planet.debian.org (unfortunately my ISP has taken to hijacking that URL
today).
> I've read LP's comments on systemd, but that hardly
> falls into the balanced camp.
Or even relevant (LP's comments), given their luxury of sitting in the
observers pavilion?
Kind regards.
P.S. I do appreciate your response, but please don't top post (mutter,
grouch, mutter)
>
> James
>
>
> On 12 February 2014 11:36, Scott Ferguson
> <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com
> <mailto:scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 12/02/14 20:27, James Allsopp wrote:
> > Hi,
> > After reading through all the pros and cons, it seems that there
> isn't a
> > good replacement at all, so it would be better to wait. Admittedly
> I use
> > OpenRC on my gentoo machine and it's fine. Systemd seems to
> violate too
> > many Unix principles and Upstart has problems with the canonical
> > copyright licence issues. I'd hate to see Linux get pulled apart
> between
> > Red Hat and Canonical, so it's important that Debian doesn't act
> > precipitously.
> > James
>
> a. The decision *was* made by Debian developers, as it should be. Those
> that do, get to make decisions about how they do 'it' - those that use,
> feel free to use elsewhere - or do their own fork instead of getting
> others to do it for them.
> b. you're flogging a dead horse, the decision *has* been made.
> c. it's the *default* init system for *Jessie*. Emphasis on default,
> Debian's commitment to choice remains unaltered.
>
> In a futile effort to forestall pointless and unproductive "opinions"
> and the debatable 'right' of people to hold and express them.
>
> NOTES: I'm not commenting specifically on your post James, it's just a
> point in the thread to inject my opinion in support of the decision by
> Debian Technical. Apropos of little - interesting how many of the, um,
> most passionate views are expressed by those that *don't* use Debian....
> (have deep emotional commitment will travel?).
> If it's relevant - I don't prefer systemd, but I do prefer the
> Debian way.
>
> Kind regards.
>
<snipped>
Reply to: