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Re: systemd intermittent startup

Le Lun 19 novembre 2012 14:38, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
> On Mon, 2012-11-19 at 07:44 -0500, Tom H wrote:
>> Nothing but innacuracy and FUD, as usual.
>> As I've pointed out in another thread/post [1], you're confusing
>> consolekit and policykit.
> I'm not. Didn't you read the links?
>> Policykit is a standalone
>> application/package. Consolekit on the other hand has been deprecated
>> upstream and replaced with systemd by systemd-logind. Please point to an
>> email (or a blog post) in which one of David Zeuthen, Lennart
>> Poettering, or Kay Sievers has announced that policykit was being
>> merged into systemd like udev.
> I did post a link. It's not merged, that's not the point.
>> All distributions "support udev" whether they boot via systemd or not.
> Yes, for Arch Linux you just have to install systemd, then you get udev.
>> systemd has been the default on Fedora for 18 months
> Yes, for Fedora. But if you run other distros and they'll force you to
> switch, you'll run into issues. If somebody runs Debian and isn't forced to
> switch, it should be allowed to warn, that a switch will cause issues and
> some issues still aren't solvable at the moment.
> Don't worry I'm tired to explain it again and again. Everybody should
> switch to systemd, it's superb to have everything startup needs in one big
> binary beta blob, much more sophisticated to have a big binary that isn't
> ready yet for some distros.
> Regards,
> Ralf
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If I am not wrong, there IS such a warning if you do the switch. At least,
if you remove the package sysvinit (or whatever name) with aptitude, it
will ask you to write an entire sentance which explain that you are
breaking your system.
Note that I had this sentence with the curses interface of aptitude, and
only when trying to remove init, not when selecting systemd, but IIRC they
are in conflict, so installing one mean removing the second.

That was some months ago, since then I have switched back because I have
seen that to have some advantage it is mandatory to replace old init
scripts and I do not have enough time.

About the systemd problem, I love when I see people say that init is
perfect. I do not feel like I am able to understand what the scripts do or
to modify them. Cascading references, writer's style which differ from one
to the other, and such things are really hard to customize for a beginner.
Init is a part of the system I completely ignore how it works. I guess
that's administrator's realm...
OTOH, systemd is young and not perfect, but it seems to solve at least
that problem and is compatible with init scripts. But I agree it have
strong dependencies on things which should be optional (libcryptsetup1&4
by example.)

Systemd is not so good, but init is not perfect either.
The first is young and so have bugs, the second starts to be old and so
have workarounds.
I think users should just be able to choose to not depends on one of them
or another, but init seriously need a replacement in my humble opinion. At
least for user computers like eeepc (where starting the computer is
frequent, unlike servers)

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