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Re: CAD software for PCB engineering and routing



Am 2008-06-21 09:22:17, schrieb Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso:
> I think this is rather nearsighted. Although for what I do,
> mathematics, it's easier to argue for openness of the software (a
> mathematical proof must be available and the method disclosed,

Sorry, but I habv my own Enterprise, working alone, outsourceing already
Jobs to India, Russia and Pakistan, have 4 childeren in a Internat which
cost over 3000 €/month and I must live...

I can not wait 5 or 10 years for software development.

I need the software NOW and currenly I have only 1000 € in my pocket.
Maybe I can get a credit from my bank but...

> otherwise, what kind of mathematics are we doing?), I also think it
> should be important to argue for the opennes of engineering software.
> If you buy it, I think you should also be demanding the source code.

For what?
What do you want with a sourcecode of the size of OpenOffice or bigger?
Do you have already decompressed the full sources of OpenOffice.org?

The question is WHY do you want the source code?

I do not know much peoples WHICH can do anything with it except stealing
ideas or such...

VariCAD for example...  Tell me a singel BIG FOSS of  this  quality  and
service? (including international standards like ISO, DIN or such)

This IS the reason, WHY I have bought VariCAD for 20.000 € (OK not realy
because I have bought in for a special price on the CeBit) but where  is
the FOSS which can create singel objects and then resamle it to a big
thing?

E.g.:  I build electonic Hardware for Solar- and Wind-Energie  and  then
       I constuct a haus where I use it, and since I  am  working  on  a
       project called "Eco City" I have not  only  one  haus  but  many.
       Then I have my BioFuel-Refinery which was designed under  VariCAD
       and is included in the design of EcoCity...  Streets are inductiv
       and cars are driving electric and are charged inductiv...

Now tell me where I can get such FOSS...

Oh, VariCAD allow me Real-Time simmulations where I can let  drive  cars
through the streets and more...

HOW do you want to provide such service with FOSS?  And why do you  want
the sourcecode for such softwre?  The Enterprise, coding and maintaining
such software invest very much money and i am talking about several 100
million Euros in development...

Do you know a FOSS, which can simulate the behaviour of a haus, tower or
a bridge in a Earth-Quake?  I have the software! - ...and payed for it.

> Unfortunately, it seems that many people in engineering backgrounds,
> with whom I frequently have to interact, are used to the idea of
> paying thousands of dollars for black boxes, whether it be for
> hardware and instrumentation or software. I think this is a recent

They do not pay for nothing...  They pay for Service and Performance

> This modern tendency to eschew source seems nearsighted because I have
> seen this come back to haunt engineers. More than once, I've seen
> their black boxes malfunction on them, the only people with the
> ability to fix them have left the company or are out of business, and

But such things do not happen to programs like VariCAD  or  professionel
PCB layouting which cost several 10.000 €.

> then they come to us with interesting mathematics of inverse problems
> ("I have the output of this black box, how can we figure out what's
> inside?"). I feel so frustrated with this, because if only they had
> requested for source and documentation when they bought it, something
> that apparently never even crossed their minds, then their newfound
> problems would be trivial.

And then?

They have the Sourcecode change the name and sell it in  there  name?  I
think, OSS or CSS, depends on the  "Type of Software"  and  the  Service
behind.

> This is my strongest argument for openness with engineering software,
> from a personal perspective. Duplication of efforts, with many
> companies implementing the same or similar software in their own
> secret ways (NIH syndrome) is another silly thing that happens behind
> copyright laws and non-disclosure agreements and something that
> software freedom can reduce or eliminate.

WHY do you think it is silly?  Developing such software  cost  money  in
recherches and services...  Why do you want it for  free?  I  call  such
peoples suckers...

> I do not know much about PCB software or to what extent these
> arguments apply to your own situation, but my guess is that they also
> do and that having source and the freedoms that come with it would
> also be hugely beneficial and a good long-term strategy.

But again, WHAT DO YOU WANT with a sourcecode where the developers  have
invested millions of €?

Note:   I have ask MANY peoples about WHY THEY WANT THE SOURCE CODE and
        there was not a singel one, which has respond suitable...

        The argument "I want to improve the software" does  not  count,
        since no one could tell me what to improve on VariCAD.


Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    24V Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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