Re: xkb options
On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 07:26:43PM EDT, Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:27:29 -0400
> cga2000 <cga2000@optonline.net> wrote:
[..]
> Sorry; my MUA (Sylpheed) has a "wrap on input" mode, which I don't
> enable, since IIUC, it inserts hard line breaks, which cause problems
> if I then edit the message and delete some text, for example. I rely on
> manual wrapping, meaning that I have to hit "Linewrap" (or alt-ctrl-l)
> before sending, and I often forget. AFAICT, Sylpheed has no
> "automatically wrap before sending" mode. I suppose _really_ need to
> learn mutt ...
If you get lots of half-junk mail .. like you're subscribed to a bunch
of mailing list and need a really efficient tool that lets you drill
down to what you want to spend some time with .. and dump the rest ..
mutt is indeed a remarkable tool .. really worth learning.. I wasted so
many hours with mozilla-mail .. I was wasting so much time trying to
get through my mail using the wrong tool that I can say that mutt
changed my life.
> > And now I have to figure out why my mutt setup didn't reformat it to 72
> > columns as it should .. per all my tweaking ..
> >
> > :-(
> >
> > As to your initial question I still have nothing to offer.
> >
> > If you need to switch keyboard layout wouldn't it make better sense to
> > have a single keyboard action mapped to "select next keyboard layout" ..
> > I mean it's not something you do hundreds of time an hour, is it?
> >
> > So if you use the "windows key" modifier for something like "terminal
> > config changes" .. wouldn't it be adequate to hit <winkey>+<L> to
> > switch to the next keyboard layout..?
>
> I don't understand enough about keyboard mapping to fully understand
> what you're suggesting; once again, any pointers to readable
> documentation on this topic would be much appreciated.
Say, you are like myself fluent in English, Spanish, and French.
Occasionally, you will need to enter text in any one of these three
languages.
You have a US keyboard that doesn't have the relevant mappings either
for French or Spanish.
With a US keyboard, my understanding is that you have two options:
1. Switch keyboard mappings whenever you need to switch languages.
2. Use "extensions" to the US keyboard to enter those characters that
do no have their dedicated key on my laptop.
Option 1. is equivalent to unplugging your US keyboard and plugging in a
French or Spanish keyboard on the fly.. The important thing here is why
would you want to do that .. ? _As I understand it_ .. it means that
you are fluent, I should say "literate" not with just the languages
themselves .. but also .. and more importantly.. with the layout of
these keyboards .. What this means is that for it to be in any way an
effective data entry interface you need to have mastered _two_
additional keyboard layouts so you can use them with as little overhead
and inconvenience as you would your native keyboard layout.
Option 2. is just a matter of finding some means of entering those
characters that are not native to the US keyboard - there is no
dedicated key that lets you enter and "o" with an acute accent on top ..
or an "n" with a tilde on top on my keyboard .. etc. so I have to enter
them via other means .. using a "compose" key .. using a timeout
feature and a keymap (as in vim) .. using "dead keys" .. none are
perfect but they all let you do the job effectively.
My day-to-day experience is with option 2.
For my own particular needs, I believe it is more effective than option
1.. because most of my interaction is in the "dominant" idiom.
But if I spent half of my time typing in Spanish and half of my time
typing in cyrillic, for instance .. it might be worth the effort of
learning to type fluently on a Spanish keyboard and a Russian keyboard ..
that's a lot of work, mind you .. but if you plan to do this for a
number of years .. a lifetime, possibly .. then it could mean that
switching keyboard layouts is the sensible choice.
When reading the above, please do keep in mind that the symbols that
appear on your keyboard are immaterial. You cannot see them anyway when
your fingers are on top of the keys, anyway, right?
As a multilingual person, I often think that in the long run, a third
option might prove less of a headache .. you set up a collection of
"thin clients" with different keyboards based on the languages that you
are familiar with and just use them to connect to a server that handles
them all transparently .. so with nimble footwork you would just need
to propel yourself from one workstation to the other whenever you need
to switch ..
:-)
> > I do understand the above may not be your primary concern .. as well as
> > your frustration and the desire to figure out why it's not working the
> > way it's advertised, though. I'm curious as well.
> >
> > I have only one Windows key on this laptop and I have remapped to CTRL
> > so I can reach it comfortably with my left thumb.
> >
> > Please let us know when you find something.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > cga
>
> A bit more information (and a correction) about my issues:
> Here's what various option settings do on my system:
>
> win_switch - either win key temporarily switches keyboard layout
> win_toggle - no effect (either win key)
> rwin_switch - right win key temporarily switches keyboard layout
> rwin_toggle - right win key permanently switches keyboard layout
> shift_win_switch - no effect
> shift_rwin_switch - no effect
> ctrl_shift_switch - no effect (keys seem to behave just as they do when
> pressed together with ctrl_shift without the option being set)
> ctrl_shift_toggle - permanently switch keyboard layout
>
> Can someone point me to an explanation of how to interpret these
> combinations?
>
> Incidentally, here's the output of 'xmodmap -pm':
>
> > xmodmap: up to 3 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):
> >
> > shift Shift_L (0x32), Shift_R (0x3e)
> > lock Caps_Lock (0x42)
> > control Control_L (0x25), Control_R (0x6d)
> > mod1 Alt_L (0x40), Alt_L (0x7d), Meta_L (0x9c)
> > mod2 Num_Lock (0x4d)
> > mod3
> > mod4 Super_L (0x7f), Hyper_L (0x80)
> > mod5 Mode_switch (0x5d), ISO_Level3_Shift (0x7c)
>
> According to 'xev', the win keys produce 'Super_L' and 'Super_R'
Good luck. Hope you get to the bottom of this .. it would be nice if
you wrote a document that describes these aspects. There are lots of
docs around that do tell you a few things but none that I know of that
really explains how this really works .. how it's done .. and more
importantly .. what the original designers had in mind when they came up
with this.
I have a feeling that if you really want to figure it out you may have
to look at the code.
Thanks,
cga
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