Re: Which OS? Was "I do consider Ubuntu to be Debian" , Ian Murdock

[Joe Hart <j.hart@orange.nl>]

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Greg Folkert wrote:
[snip]
> Xfce is also much newer than in sid or etch. Perhaps you'd be interested
> to know about experimental. GNOME in experimental has crept up to 2.18.
> 2.2 OO.o has rc stuff right now, a bit buggy due to mixed RCs, but very
> soon 2.2 released will be there. Xfce is at v4.4 and is very nicely
> shaped up.

Agreed.  XFCE 4.4 is nice, although I still prefer KDE, I have to admit
that the 4.4 version is quite an improvement from earlier versions.
Gnome on the other hand, I have not given a chance since 2.16, perhaps I
will reevaluate it at some time, but have no plans at the moment.

> 
>> The problem with Ubuntu is that while it is based on Debian, several
>> key
>> items are different (restricted modules, sudo/root, etc.) to make it
>> not
>> appealing to many Debian purists.
> 
> There are other reasons Debian purists don't like Ubuntu. Me, I don't
> like it because of the importance of Deadlines, though with an RC
> process, but not without a bunch of compromises that hurt it badly in
> many instances. Such that upgrade *sometimes* can be a serious headache.
> Having had to fix quite a few upgrades gone wrong with Ubuntu, I get the
> bad parts much more.

Been there, done that.

> I see the biggest problem, people NOT wanting to test the upgrade
> process as the releases aren't very long between them. This then brings
> out the "missed" bugs, especially with regards to "non-main" packages
> and 3rd party "non-universe/multiverse". Screamers, scream "5UXX0RZ",
> not realizing that they screwed themselves going outside the system. But
> still blame others.

The whole point of me running the system I run now is that I won't have
to worry about doing that again.  I run apt-get dist-upgrade every week
now, and do not run into problems because only a few packages at a time
get updated.  The reason I run dist-upgrade instead of upgrade is
because the Sidux developers recommend it to avoid problems with library
upgrades.

> Debian reduces this, as 19,000+ packages encompass most of those
> problems Ubuntu experience. Even with 3rd party things like
> "Debian-Multimedia" actually use buildd exactly (well almost exactly)
> like the Debian proper does.

Yep.

>> Sidux on the other hand offers 100% compatibility with Debian, and
>> some really smart people helping smooth any bumps one might experience
>> with it.  Sidux is Sid, with a custom kernel and a few really good
>> scripts.
> 
> I'd like to see most of those improvements make it back into Debian.
> They are compatible, though *some* of the kernel whacks aren't.

- From what I have read on their forums, the Sidux developers plan on
doing that, and they hope that by more people using their system, more
bugs will be found in Sid so that they can be fixed sooner.

>> For Debian people who might be afraid of running Sid, Sidux might be
>> just the answer that they were looking for.  However, I would have to
>> admit that it might be dangerous, and Etch is the safe bet.  It might
>> not have the latest packages, but it will work as promised.
> 
> I have to say that as an experienced Sid (with experimental sprinkled in
> regularly) user for many years, if you are scared to run Sid... "Grow
> some hair on your chest, that includes the women!"

LOL.

> No, really, Sid typically isn't for the faint of heart. A few weeks
> after Etch release, Sid is gonna be a bumpy ride for a month or more.

I believe this also to be true, and I am looking forward to having
problems so I can complain.  If you haven't figured me out yet, I am the
type of person who likes to complain, and right now, everything works
like it's supposed to, so there is nothing to complain about, except
about things like Ubuntu, that I don't really feel is appropriate for
this list.
> 
> "To infinity^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HLenny... and beyond!"

I wonder how many people will not understand that.  You know that only
well educated or old-timers know those control characters. ^G^L

Joe
- --
Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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