On Tuesday 25 July 2006 13:37, Matej Cepl wrote: > Paul Johnson wrote: > > That's odd, Debian's 3.5.3 version of Kopete still doesn't do it. 0.12 < > > 3.5.3... > > I said, that it has not been packaged for Debian yet. (3.5.3 is version of > KDE, not Kopete which is there in version 0.10). Hmm, what's the deal with the kopete package version being radically wrong then? > > Multi-protocol clients violate the "do one thing and do it well" design > > principal. > > ^^^^^^^^^ > principle Spelling lame noted. > However, I think that this partially a matter of definition. What is the > client? If you look at a client as library which provides translation from > one particular protocol to the shared user interface, then kopete/Jabber > client is getting pretty good, and that kopete/shared interface was pretty > good for some time already. Of course, it cannot be just one way street > (shared user interface must accommodate different functions of different > protocols), but it seems to me that it is not impossible to create decent > multi-protocol IM program (and, no, I agree with you, gaim is not the one). How long have multiple-IM clients been around now? 6 or 8 years? Even DOS had more progress made over the same timespan in terms of usability. I think that says more about the utter lack of effort or the impossibility of a reasonably functional multi-protocol client than it does about DOS. I no longer think it's a matter of "Shit or get off the toilet," it's time to just get off the toilet already. :o) > But this would be a long discussion. Try to thing about kopete as a > collection of individual clients using shared user interface, and things > are then quite different. That makes the situation that much sadder, really. > >> b) IRC over Jabber (irc.netlab.cz among many others) kind of stinks -- > >> you can use it if necessary, but even kopete client is much better than > >> that. > > > > Quantify please. I use the IRC transport on a daily basis without issue. > > 1) OK, when entering IRC over true IRC client, I don't get 49 messages > about status of individual participants in the discussion (that's the > current situation at kopete%irc.freenode.net@irc.kdetalk.net). That would be a client issue, the network isn't sending those messages. Case in point, Psi 0.10 doesn't tell you when others join or leave chatgroups and IRC channels, Psi 0.11 does unless you've just joined, then it waits until the list stops filling up before it starts giving chat status inline. > 2) Things like /join #debian work. Client issue, I can join #debian no problem, though with a little lag until Psi finishes adding all users in the chat to the participants frame. > 3) I can have automatic commands (/msg Nickserv identify ###) on > connection. > 4) I can add participants to my roster and check their status OK, these could be worked out better, I agree, and this would be a server side problem. I would like to see ejabberd's mod_irc allow you to register with it so it'll identify for you, and pass people's status back a-la the other transports to obsolete protocols. OTOH, IRC is starting to take the same hit the other obsolete networks are, so I'm not sure this will even be an issue in five years... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo@ursine.ca Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber
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