Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 06:31:42 +1100, bob parker wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 05:17, Paul Morgan wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 03:49:12 +1100, bob parker wrote:
>> > On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:12, Tom wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 04:32:47PM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote:
>> >> > Good point. And just because Bill Gates et. al have become hard-nosed
>> >> > businessmen, it does not mean they are immoral.
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft played the exact same role in its origins v. IBM as Linux is
>> >> now playing to Microsoft; the upstart, force for freedom. The PC was a
>> >> freedom revolution against the glass house.
>> >
>> > IBM invented the PC not Microsoft. IBM made the decision to have open
>> > standards so that third parties could and did manufacture components and
>> > of course the entire assembly itself. Microsoft did not even create
>> > MSDOS, they bought it. Sure the PC was a force for freedom, but the
>> > credit goes to IBM, all Microsoft have ever done is to constrain that
>> > freedom.
>> >
>> >> That's one of the things that makes me feel squirelly and uncomfortable
>> >> about open source; you always have to consider "who gains by this and
>> >> what's their motivation". Any philosophy which cannot account for basic
>> >> facts must have foundational weaknesses.
>> >
>> > Like thinking that Microsoft created the PC for instance?
>>
>> Thinking that IBM invented the personal computer is not much smarter than
>> thinking that Microsoft did.
> I never said they did invented the personal computer, just the PC.
> It is their product and they own the trade mark of it.
> Moreover they wrote open standards so that 3rd parties could build hardware
> for it. That was what commoditised the desktop computer and consequently
> started the revolution.
>
>>
>> Ever heard of the Altair? Or the Apple I and II, the TRS-80 or Commodore
>> Pet?
>
> Sure but they are not PCs and as brilliant as they were in their day, they
> were still closed standards.
>>
>> IBM did popularize the term "PC", but they sure as heck didn't invent the
>> personal computer. And, because they'd bought the rights to the Intel
>> 8086, and because of the sheer economic power and brand recognition of
>> IBM, we all got stuck with the dreadful Intel segmented memory
>> architecture.
>
> Sigh! Yeah I used to program Alpha Micros, built on the Motorola 6800, then
> 68000 chips. I'd much rather they went with them.
Yes, we're talking at cross purposes, and I apologize for my opening
remark. On rereading it, I realized that I was much less than polite.
I was thinking exactly the same about the Motorola chips. I did some work
on an Altos using the Moltorolas and running Unix. Using a pre-DB2/SQL
relational database. *sigh* the good old days :)
--
....................paul
"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
(The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June 1972)
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