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Re: Enough time wasted, moving on



>>"Corrin" == Corrin Lakeland <lakeland@acm.org> writes:

 Corrin> I've been ignoring this thread for a while, but I thought I'd
 Corrin> add some support for Harry's point of view here.

	Actually, I would like to know what that is. Do we have
 problems with testing/unstable? Yes, that is why they are not
 released. 

 Corrin> Firstly, stable vs woody.  We recently had a thread on -devel
 Corrin> where we concluded that ordinary users are best running
 Corrin> testing.

	With some caveats: they have to realize testing is not like
 stable. They are getting a newer distribution that is rough around
 the edges. And upgrading/installing of an unreleased distribution are
 indeed going to be problem points. 

 Corrin> You can't complain they have a hard time installing
 Corrin> testing when that is what we tell them to run.  Yes the

	Do we really? (I don't happen to recal the devel thread, and I
 do follow -devel).  If we somehow imply that testing is as easy to
 install as the stable distribution is, then we are doing these people
 a disservice. 


 Corrin> I'll now post the story of what happened last time I
 Corrin> installed debian.  The situation isn't that dissimilar from
 Corrin> Harry's.  -- I've been using unix for a long time and debian
 Corrin> for a while.  Recently I upgraded my machine again and I've
 Corrin> had a number of problems.  Furthermore, if I'm having
 Corrin> problems, just how bad is Debian for new users? We all hear
 Corrin> stories about how people were shown linux years ago and found
 Corrin> it _way_ too difficuilt; based on my experiences I think it
 Corrin> is still happening.

	[problems with the kernel, X, mouse, and framebuffers snipped]

	Did you file bug reports for all these problems?

	What _is_ the point of this message? Are you saying that woody
 is not yet release quality? We know that already. Are you trying to
 say installing Debian is harder than installing other distributions,
 despite our recent efforts to make it easier? well, my response is 
     a) we may not have the same target audience that the other
        distributions do -- despite our efforts to the contrary
     b) This is a volunteer effort. It works when people scratch their
        itches, speaking in a software sense. Since this so obviously
        bothers you, don't you think you should join in on the boot
        floppies effort (debian-boot@lists.debian.org) and help with
        making the install a better one? debian-user mails are not
        really the most efficient ways to change things.

	manoj
-- 
 "But Huey, you PROMISED!" "Tell 'em I lied."
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@debian.org>  <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C



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