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Re: Switching the default startup method

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:38:21AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> > > #475478 insserv: uninstallation fails horribly if an init script has
> > > been removed.
> > [...]

> > > #538959 needs actually to be worked on. The current state is not how
> > > it should be.
> > (which you later said it should be #511753)

> > These two only seem to occur when insserv is removed, and since it is now
> > pseudo-essential that should never happen, IOW: IMO they are not grave (I
> > do agree that they should be addressed, though).

> Eh. This translates to: "it is ok that the admin cannot switch back
> from insserv to oldstyle booting".

> And that is a statement that I heavily disagree with. I think neither
> our users nor our developers at large considers that a feature, but
> rather a very grave bug.

I don't presume to know what the majority of developers think about this,
but *I* think the traditional sysv-rc boot system is broken beyond repair.
I am not at all concerned with giving users infinite choices in their boot
systems - I think there should be exactly one, which should be bug-free.

> We should definitly continue to support oldstyle booting, at least for
> the time being.


So far, the only bugs that have been highlighted in this thread appear to be
bugs that happen when trying to remove insserv.  If there aren't any
problems with the new system, why do we need to support downgrading?

> So you are telling us here that anyone who depends on the 20+ years
> working method of ordering boot with decimal numbers is using a
> regression? Sorry, but this is just plainly wrong.

Not really.  There are longstanding bugs with the sysv-rc approach that are
never going to be fixed except by migrating to a new system designed with
these problems in mind.

The fact that symlinks have to be changed by hand whenever one daemon gains
a dependency on another, possibly in cascading fashion, is one such bug.

I have seen that insserv does still have some rough patches at the moment,
and I think these are documented in the BTS and I have every confidence that
they will be addressed.  But I think "insserv doesn't permit removal" is the
least important of these.

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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