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Re: Please expulse Frans Pop from debian

to Sven Luther:

as well as I understood your origin problems with the behaviour of Frans Pop
and other people involved, you clearly stopped following your own philosophy
regarding fairness. And you stopped long ago to act in the sense of the project,
which is actually something you complained about regarding people's actions
against your person.

Since you put up for DPL candidate on the *-private mailing lists you only
achieved one big mud fight.

And as the mailing list threads about the SOC-CTTE topic clearly show, you
will only strengthen your victim status by going any further.

I have my own share of unfair experiences with a few debian developers.

And its impossible to achieve a fair conflict management by discussions of
any kind, as long as no dedicated committee exists, where people review the
conflicts in an objective manner,
without involving private and personal desires.

So the advice of somebody who is on your side can only be:
Take a break, Sven.
Let things go for a few months.
Take the time and focus in projects that are independent from Debian.

to Amaya Rodrigo Sastre:

what is your positive contribution to resolve conflicts between people,
other than telling people to shut up?

to Steve Langasek:

I have doubts that you understood the intention of Frank Küster, when he
said that it was absolutely obvious how Sven Luther would react, and that
smart and professional people in responsible positions could have avoided
most of this mud fighting.

And to add this, in case the situation is still not clear enough:

On "official" debian channels on irc.oftc.net you get defaced and banned,
or depending on the mood of Peter Palfrader, Christoph Berg and Jörg
Jaspert you get k-lined from the entire network if you _just_ mention in a
situation like this, why something like a SOC-CTTE is needed.

And there are many of these so called "social core problems".

It shows that a committee is needed, where people review and manage
conflicts in a professional _and_ fair manner for _all_ involved people.

It does not seem to be necessary for those in powerful positions.
Those with a quick finger on the kick button like it this way.

But is it okay for the majority of people who are involved with Debian
either directly as developer, or indirectly as contributor, user, etc.?

I dont want to use the case of Sven Luther to resolve my own issues.

And I dont want to play in the cards of a few problematic personalities who
will use my posting here to say that I am just here for trolling.

I dont think that I need a developer status or the reputation of a famous
hacker, so grown up and sane people believe me, that I have no negative
intentions at all. I care for Debian as a Linux distribution and I care for
Debian as a community.

And because I care, I want to express clearly that Sven Luther's case
was not handled properly from the very beginning. A few involved people
made mistakes as Sven himself did. But its not about right that Sven
is the only one who pays for the conflicts.

It was the easiest solution to use the kick button once again.
But it was not a correct form of conflict management to suspend Sven's
DD status and let the other involved people continue as nothing happend.


Patrick Frank

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