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Re: Please expulse Frans Pop from debian

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 06:22:26AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > Because, i alone cannot solve it. Why do you think i candidated as DPL ?
> > Because i am a masochist, and wanted to be attacked by the outraged hoards of
> > haters who tried to expulse me for it ? No, because i recognized there was a
> > problem, and also recognized that nothing can be done without having an
> > official position of power in Debian, or at least a strong enough backing in
> > the DPL campaign for it to be taken seriously.
> Free software project work under various social principles. Becoming DPL to
> ´gain power' to somehow dictate the actions of a volunteer in a free
> software project is not a solution in this domain. Debian has social

Well, the aim was not "to gain power", but rather to prove that this problem
is widely recognized, and thus gain the legitimity to try to solve it.

> norms made by and respected by its members.

Debian has no social norms at all, no understanding of social problems. 

> You must _show_ by action,
> by irc and email tone, by calm language and respect.

I fail to see the verb in this sentence, can you clarify what you meant here ? 

> You alone can not
> decide if you meet these criteria, and that others don't, only a third
> party. And you can't then decide that you don't like the third party
> ruling. One person can not decide on their own what is ok and expect
> others to follow, in a large project. It is based upon consenus. Folks

So, when Anthony decided all alone that i was to be punished, and Frans was to
be set judge over my good behaviour, this is acceptable or not ? The same
question, when James Troup and Joerg Jaspert decided all by themselves that i
was to be punished ? 

There is no such thing as consensus, just the decision of a few people in
power, since most everyone else mostly don't want to be bothered, or if they
notice, and disprove, don't really act on this.

> have stated how your behaviour was not acceptible to Debian (and
> probably other) social norms but you insist on doing what you think is
> correct while not respecting what Debian's other members have set. I´d
> like to know where else this has worked? Try telling  a librarian that
> you are allowed to yell in a library because you say so.  Have you seen

What if the librarian tells you that it is not ok to yell, but closes the eyes
on everyone else yelling just as much ? 

> this[0]? I'm sure folks would like to know what you think of it.  I'd
> love to see you contribute to ppc in Debian but you don't seem to
> understand what about your behaviour others people object. 

I understand, but then i also notice that acting otherwise just get ignored.
See what i tried with the wiki page :


and see the result i got. See on the same wiki page how i contributed many
bugs through the BTS under the constraint of the DPL mediation, and see what
results i got. See how i behaved correctly in november/december, and see how
fabio decided i needed to be banned. See how i stayed away from debian lists on
january, february, and see that on february 21 some folk decided to want to
expulse me again.

Sorry, but playing nice doesn't work in debian, because the vast majority
doesn't really care, or doesn't care enough to take action when iniquity

So, given that, what do you suggest to me ? 


Sven Luther

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