Re: Please expulse Frans Pop from debian
On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 11:29:08PM -0700, Richard Hecker wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 22:56 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > When will Debian realise that there should be a way to solve social problems,
> > and actually try to solve it, instead of trying to censor or silence the most
> > annoying party ? This is a real question, and once Debian has an answer for
> > that, it will solve my problem, but also the innumerable flamewars in which i
> > was not involved which surface regularly, and contribute to the not-fun
> > ambient of which i am currently made the scapegoat.
> Realizing a problem exists does not guarantee a solution will be found.
Well, the first step to solve a problem, is to recognize it exists. The second
step is to have the will to solve it.
> You have been a DD for too long to not understand how volunteers scratch
> their own itch. Why did you not find a solution? You had the most to
> gain from it.
Because, i alone cannot solve it. Why do you think i candidated as DPL ?
Because i am a masochist, and wanted to be attacked by the outraged hoards of
haters who tried to expulse me for it ? No, because i recognized there was a
problem, and also recognized that nothing can be done without having an
official position of power in Debian, or at least a strong enough backing in
the DPL campaign for it to be taken seriously.
Do you not think i have tried to solve this issue ? Since the start i went for
the natural mediator, the DPL, in the following discussion i made a reasonable
proposal which has been ignored, and ever since then i made numerous attempts
at reconciliation, upto the proposal of an face-to-face meeting at FOSDEM,
which was always rejected, with Frans even passing beside me without returning
my greeting, and Holger, who knew about the expulsion procedure before me,
telling me that Debian would be better off without him.
I even went to #debian-devel, asked for help, and wrote the wiki page in a
most constructive and positive manner i could imagine, but answer to this was
of the "FUCK YOU", "the biggest load of crap" and "you must first recognize
that everything is your fault".
> Instead of finding a solution to a conflict between two individuals, you
> chose to escalate the problem. Dragging more and more people into it
> with incessant complaints has obviously not fixed it. I will not
What else could i have done, the DPL made a joke of it, my tries for
conciliation where always rejected, and meet with ever escalating humiliation
and sabotage of my work.
> minimize the wrongs you suffered, but I fail to see how your conduct is
> helping the situation. If you try to solve a small problem by creating
> a bigger problem, it should not surprise you when people focus on the
> bigger problem. Before you send another knee-jerk response, take some
> time to think about what other DDs consider to be the bigger problem
> (going through the expulsion process should provide a clue ;-).
My analysis is that the majority of DDs don't want to be bothered, and each time they
see a mail from me in their mailer, they don't even read it, but have a
knee-jerk reaction of exasperation against me. As said, they favour the
tranquility of their sacro-saint mailbox over trying to solve a social
problem, which they prefer to ignore and not be bothered with.
And, no, it is not a small problem, it is constant provocation since fall
2005, it is using a time where i was hurt and suffering over my mothers
sickness and death, to come hurting me more, it is hindering my debian work to
reach the users, it is constantly diminishing my kernel related work, because
i wanted to *DISCUSS* possible technical solutions, it is asking for my
expulsion *BECAUSE* i presented myself as DPL candidate, since apparently some
part of debian fears that those social problems may get faced head-on.
And look what happened, the DAMs sentence makes sure, that even if i would, i
could not try to change these things through the GR way, as was my intention,
first by a radical reform of the expulsion procedure, then by promoting some
changes in the constitution to ensure that conflict of interest like the one
Manoj faced on the non-free firmware issue, and to a lesser degree the DAMs
faced on my expulsion, are no more.
So, i am out of the game, and it is up to the remaining DDs to decide what
they want Debian to be, a place of mafioso politics, flamewars,
power-grabbing and money-influence, like it has now become, or something