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Please expulse Frans Pop from debian, ... was : [eddy.petrisor@gmail.com: Re: This is getting ridiculous ...]

Hi, please read the following, and this may give you more of an insight about
the situation.

And so you know, the words of Eddy Petrisor apply as well to your judgement of
recently, as to aj's mediation attempt of last june.

And you still haven't made full transparency about the dates, and didn't dare
say in public that the expulsion request was relaunched, not by Anthony Towns
at the start of june, but by somebody, presumably Frans since he has gone
around searching for supporters, on february 21, after my candidature as DPL.

And James Troup, I want to know from you, why you did not speak about this
with me at FOSDEM, while we spoke a full day after the decision to relaunch
the procedure started again.

So, i am now waiting for a reply from you, the DAMs, on this. And also i want
a reply on the total lack of transparency and the numerous irregularities in
the way the procedure was handled.


Sven Luther

----- Forwarded message from Eddy Petrişor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com> -----

Message-ID: <60381eeb0606171145r56fe8531v373cfe9f069d4d51@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:45:37 +0300
From: Eddy Petrişor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>
To: debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: This is getting ridiculous ...

On 6/17/06, Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> wrote:
>> > > And what has that to do with anything ? I have no interest in
>> > > going into this hate-game, i want the situation solved, and be
>> > > able to commit as any normal DD would.
>> >
>> > You have that already. There are >1000 DD's, and only a small portion of
>> > those has commit access to the d-i repository. "any normal DD",
>> > therefore, does not have commit access to the d-i repository.
>> And how many of them cannot commit despite wanting to do it ?
>Not a clue.

== I don't know, aka lack of knowledge, aka diletantism (I am not sure
if this word is too strong)

>No interest either

== I don't care, aka ignorance

>-- how is it any relevant?

== lack of touch with reality

Please, don't be ridiculous. Sven is a person who:
- has the techinical skills to support the powerpc arch
- never abused his commit rights (AFAIK, and nobody has ever
argumented against this)
- has a communication problem on which he is definetly working on and
the progress is visible
- has been involved in Debian for a long time
- wants to contribute to D-I

Asking how is it relevant if people in Debian (and I mean DDs) which
wish for D-I access and don't have it may not exist makes me believe
that you are not talking seriousely. I personally don't think such
people existst, or if they do, they are involved since only quite
recent times or they do not feel they need it. The commit right was
administered very well until this event, IMHO.

Heck, there are translators which have access to D-I SVN (me being one
of them), and Sven's has been revoked? Yes, he might have said that he
will not do D-I work, but he has changed his mind. Is that a reason
not to give it back? (and please don't argument with ridicule things
such as a ping pong of "I want it/I don't want it" on Sven's side)

Is there any TECHNICAL reason for him not being given back SVN access?
Are there ANY reasons to believe that he will do submersive acts by
using his SVN access? Isn't he allowed to be given a second try?

I feel that Frans has taken a cunning course of actions in what seems
to be a personal vendeta, and he is taking advantage of the fact that
people have been annoyed at different times by Sven, and by his rights
over the D-I repository.

Frans, I really don't care about your oppinon now, you have became a
small person in my eyes (thing of which you might not care, but I have
granted you the right to a second mistake). I have told you in a
private mail in the past that you are making a mistake in the way you
are handling the situation, that you are overreacting, while you have
hidden behind the techincal comitee's decision and then behind AJ's.

None of these two has never acknowledeged, AFAIK, the social problem
behind the whole Sven's SVN access rights issue, and I feel this is a
failure. Why? Because ALL of the current situation is based on
personal feelings.

I said cunning, and I will say it again, because you _are_ cunningly
provoking Sven while he is such an easy target because of his
justified, IMO, feeling that he has been incorrectly been ruled
against and he is irritated by this.

Yes, Sven is not a man without a flaw, but he knows it and he is
working on it, OTOH, you, Frans are also not either without flaw, but
you are a lesser man because you are not making your best to try to
put animosity behind yourself and let your personal feelings cloud
your judgement and affect D-I work on the powerpc port.

I have been silent about this issue for quite some time in the hope
that  things will not degenerate, but I see that pride is higher
positioned than wisdom in some places within Debian.

Sven, I accuse you of being at guilt about the IRC conversation that
triggered this whole thread, but I feel that you are indeed sincere
when you say that you feel this is ridiculous. You have been such an
easy catch for Frans that I feel sorry for you for not being able to
step away from this whole issue. I know is hard, but you are doing
yourself a disfavour and, although others might see your break from
this issue as a win on their side, you could be able to improve your
own state of mind. You have a great deal of leaning at keeping
yourself out of trouble (and that might be a from some POV-s a good

"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

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