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Re: Complaint about #debian operator

On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 09:42:14PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> [2005.12.12.2121 +0100]:
> > So when was the last time you tried installing Debian with this
> > task whose name you are not even sure of?
> I don't think I ever installed the task myself, but surely
> I installed GNOME and/or KDE, and the task doesn't really do
> anything else, or does it? Anyway, my comments are based on dozens
> of feedbacks I got from other users, none of whom was particularly
> excited at being dumped into plain X+KDE/GNOME without much
> integration. Just yesterday, someone wrote to me:
>   I've used Debian for years and I love it and continue to use it on
>   my servers. I use Ubuntu on the desktop and I love it too. I get
>   a fluffy interface as nice as a Mac set up for me but importantly,
>   I still get hardcore Debian commands because Debian is still
>   underneath.
> I surely never heard a Debian user talk about a "fluffy interface"
> whilst installing a desktop environment. The desktop task installs
> KDE and GNOME, and then you log into KDE and it looks like ... well
> -- maybe that's fixed by now, but #248868 was a major PR problem at
> a big rollout we completed last year. GNOME looks much better after
> the first log-in, but something tells me this is in part due to
> Ubuntu...

I'd personally love to see more specific complaints about how things could
be improved. Your bug is one of two concrete examples I've seen as to why
Ubuntu's famed integration is so much better than the desktop task, and the
only one to suggest actual improvements to be made. The other example being
that Ubuntu auto-mounts USB keys, which our gnome metapackage should handle
as well, thanks to gnome-volume-manager. The "fluffy interface" comment
only goes to highlite this, since it doesn't specify how the Ubuntu UI is
so much better than the Debian one. 

The result of this leads me to believe that most of the famed integration
going on in Ubuntu is the result of the eye-catching theme, the choice of a
single default desktop, and good marketing. I had hoped to install Ubuntu
on one of my systems to see for myself, but unfortunately the installer
failed so I have had to make do with the LiveCD. The problematic outcome of
all this though, is that we can't fix the problem if we don't know where it

 - David Nusinow

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