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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 08:35:51PM -0700, tony mancill wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> > > Frequently, this utility comes via the use of programs that are not part
> > > of, nor will ever be part of Debian.  Discouraging those who have a need
> > > for such tools does nothing but harm Debian.
> >
> > On what do you base that?
> I base that comment on my experiences trying to advocate Debian in
> corporate environments, working with vendors and the rest of the "real
> world" (where people don't always have choices to run free software).
> It's disheartening to hear colleagues comment about what a bunch of
> assholes the Debian people are.  

I can't help it you can't face the truth, I already have heard other
people (who are already a DD) saying the same thing.

> Imagine that as a project member you are
> a service provider.  A service provider can do 10 things right and be rude
> only once, and still a user will recall the negative experience.

Start by the people who are already a Debian developer and are even
more rude than me. Or is it allowed to be offensive when you are a
debian developer? Or do you have to agree with the person being rude
before they can rude???

> > Why do you think people with other views are a problem? Don't you come
> > from a country where you have the freedom to say what you think? If
> > you do, do you always walk away when somebody says what he thinks?
> >
> > Did also ever heard about ignoring/filtering the mails you don't like?
> Sure.  But debian-devel is not a sounding board for your views.  It's a
> technical list.  When you use it express your distain for non-free
> software, you waste the collective time of the entire readership.  

I just told the user the cause of the problem.

> > > Developers can advocate applicants, but I'm not familiar with a method to
> > > express reluctance concerning an applicant.  I'd like to request that the
> > > DAM to reconsider Jeroen Dekkers' application for new maintainership, and
> > > potentially place that application on hold for a period of time to further
> > > assess the signal-to-noise his membership represents to Debian.  I believe
> > > that his immaturity is detrimental to the project.
> >
> > Because you don't think the same way I do?
> No, because when you choose to speak for the project, there is a modicum
> of decorum that should be observed.  

I will add "IMHO" next time.

> I have no interest in silencing your
> convictions, and I'm not even disagreeing with what you've said.  I am
> simply voicing my concern with *how* you've expressed yourself.  I believe
> that there should be a certain amount of professional courtesy extended to
> other developers and users.  I offering this same courtesy to you by
> telling you why I would find it difficult to advocate you at this time.

I've expressed myself almost the same way on the debian-hurd
mailinglist when somebody asked if the Hurd runs on VMWare and nobody
complained about it. I can't help it that there are some non-free
software loving people on debian-devel.

> In any event, my opinion carries no more weight than any other Debian
> developer (and less that many), so there's little point in you feeling
> threatened.  I'm simply stating, publicly, that I think it's important
> that NM applicants exhibit the capacity for civil discourse on the lists,
> and that a tendency to be abusive on the lists should be a factor in the
> DAM's decision (which it may already be).

Then DAM has already failed with previous applicants.

Jeroen Dekkers
Jabber supporter - http://www.jabber.org Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org
Debian GNU supporter - http://www.debian.org http://www.gnu.org
IRC: jeroen@openprojects

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