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Re: Please update apt-howto translation

Hi Julien,

sorry for the delay but I'm as usual busy (and I've a bad cold).

On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 07:49:57PM +0200, Julien Louis wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 05:08:15PM +0200, Jens Seidel wrote:
> > it seems that this file is in a very bad shape. All messages are either
> > untranslated or marked fuzzy. I really doubt that the old translation is
> > so outdated. Can I assume that the fuzzy messages are default for
> > files converted to PO format? This would be very bad ...
> The german translation is based on the 1.8.4 version which is about 2
> years old. If you think the german translation is younger tell me on

2 years old, mmh, OK, I trust you.

> which version you think your translation is based on and i'll take a
> look. Translated strings are fuzzied by default since the gettextisation
> tool make a syntaxic analysis. fuzzy messages are the ones that matched

OK, I assumed this but you have to mention this without request!!!

> during the initial conversion. They need to be reviewed by somebody to
> ensure they correspond to their respective msgids. 

I assume you did the conversion to PO for all languages. Assume a
language was up-to-date, now it's completely marked fuzzy and that's
why remains untranslated. Not a nice progress ...

I understand that you prefer the PO file format and I really appreciate your
work, really. PO files have a few advantages (and disadvantages) compared
with SGML files. But I do not like the necessary additional time
exposure required to fix it. That's why I emphasized it should be
automated as much as possible.

> > Please add at least a link where the upstream CVS files can be found.
> > There are a few in the DDP CVS, an older copy is in the Debian Reference
> > CVS in SourceForge, ...)
> The upstream SVN repository is available at:
> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/apt-howto/trunk/?rev=0&sc=0

Thanks (was also missing in your first mail :-))

> > I'm sure it easier to remove fuzzy messages by improving the method you
> > used or at least by comparing the SGML files from CVS and watching recent
> > changes since the last synchronisation against the English file.
> How can i remove fuzzy messages in a language i don't understand ? By learning

Of course not, but by proper analysing!
One example: If the SGML file was completely up-to-date you would be
able to remove all fuzzy strings. On the other side you have to ensure
that the msgid and msgstr match. I assume the messages are grouped by
comparing paragraphs in the original files.
This would require knowledge of the language ...

Maybe it's a good idea first to update the old SGML file and convert
after this to PO file format. So it would be possible to restrict
updating of the file to out of sync parts of the translation (according
to old SVN/CVS changes).
Directly modifying the PO files requires much more work.

Please also note that it's likely that the fuzzy mark is removed, just
because the msgid and msgstr strings *seems* to match. If you remove the
fuzzy mark for a large amount of messages you will not notice the little
change in the next string (let's say a minor part of a long URL changed)
but would notice this in the SGML file according to the SVN log of the
English version.

I noticed it very often in the past that a minor change was ignored just
because it was not obvious and the sync required much work.

> every language i had to convert ? Maybe by checking tagged/quoted text
> and praying that i've not made mistakes some outdated translations or
> by using some online translators, copy & paste each message and compare
> the result with the translated text ? I've only removed some text which
> seemed to be added by the last translator, removed means cut and paste
> in additionnal file used to insert text during the po -> sgml
> conversion.

That's the problem, right? You changed to a new format which requires
a lot of work but are not willing/able to do the necessary steps :-))

> > I also wonder why even the header of the attached PO file is completely
> > bogus. Are you not able to fix at least the project name across all
> > languages ...?
> Yes, I am able to do it. Do you want i send another po file with
> correct headers ?

No, there is no need to send another file to this list but please commit
it (for all languages, not only German!). Ensuring that the header is OK
is really important (build process reqires a proper encoding, bug
reporting requires a proper maintainer address, ...) and should be done
by the person who created the file, otherwise it is very likely that at
least one entry is wrong for at least one language for a long time ...

Again thanks for your work. I'm just disappointed by the amount of work
necessary to have it done properly ...


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