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Re: Little BIG problem with Backbone

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:02:35 +0200, Michelle wrote in message 
<[🔎] 20040410000234.GM12143@freenet.de>:

> Am 2004-04-09 23:20:47, schrieb Andreas John:
> >Hello!
> >
> >Before all this begins to get silly:
> >You are playing with amount of money which I would not concern as 
> >pennyware. As from you mails before, it's clearly to recognize that
> >you 
> I had a talk with the "Ministry of Communicatin" in Rabat and he ask 
> me about the costs. 
> I have answerd "some hundred million Dirham". 
> A littlebit silence and than he ask me "How many hundred million ?"
> OK, between 8 and 12. 
> He was meaning, thats a real chiffre.

..thats like 70 to 110 mill euros.

> >haven an idea, but no concept nor the skills you need. You will need 
> >probably consultants who help you to find a concept that works - in 
> >financial and technical concerns.
> Right, and as I have written, I do only the study for this project. 
> Then I will present this Project som people from the Maroc Gov. and 
> some Finanicial/Technical Specialists to get a summary...
> >Some technical questions:
> >
> >_ How will you do the accounting for wireless connections? Security? 
> >To "shoot from the hip" I would recommend Maxina (www.maxina.de)
> Oll Users have a fixed IP-Address and security is VPN/pptp (Included 
> since Win98) and downlodable for Win95. 

..trivial.  As is bandwidth throttling.  

> "Maxina" I do not know and I will check it out.

..this is a "billable traffic metering" server product, no?  
I think I've seen such stuff, under the GPL too.  
Viable with hotels, airports or cybercafe's, but 
defeats the fat pipe idea elsewhere, IMHO.

> >_ Did You know that Satellite Communictions has huge latencey ( 2 * 
> >36000Km distance ... I guess you won't be able to get a ping below
> >500ms)
> Yes I know. Not funny for gamers...
> >_ Scalabilty? How many users can an accesspoint (Tsunami et al.)
> >take? It's probably not an bandwidth concern ...
> I offer only 64, 128 and 256 kBit. because my Experience with the 
> "Lucent ORINOCO" maybe 2500 Clients with 64 kBit on one 54 MBit
> Channel. 

..chk my link in my other reponse to you. ;-)

> >_ Did you know that "100% ISPs" are generally nothing else than
> >"99,x% ISPs" when it comes to reality? The only advantage is, that
> >you give you some pence if they violate their SLA.
> YES.
> >_ Did you know that "54Mbit" 802.11a doesn't really give you 54 Mbit
> >in realiy? (huge overhead, all German readers: C'T benchmarked it)
> But they have only Benchmarked the SOHO-Systems not HighEnd. 

...<card benchmark snip>...

...and when you buy several thousand cards, you get what 
specs you want, for a fair bit less.

> >_ For reliable wireless LAN you need line of sight or very close
> >distance

..<antenna benchmark snip>...
> >_ 34Mbit and 155Mbit "radio" LAN Connection Equipment is far better
> >than 802.x but very expensive and maybe shitty to when it comes to
> >"noise" concerns. LaserLinks are more reliable but don't work in
> >foggy environments.
> 8.000 km of FiberOptic cable ? 
> I do not like to dream about the price...
> But RadioBridges with 34 MBit do maximum 30 km and with 155 MBit 
> around 20 km. So I need many of them. 

...or, to lift them up high.  ;-)
> One of the Enterprises that I have contacted was 
> <http://www.itm-group.com/> and the Suggestion:
> 34 MBit Systems:	Sagem, Witcom, Ericsson
> 155 MBit Systems:	Ceragon, Ericsson
> Also he told me, that I need between 7 and 10 RadioBridges for a 
> distance of 300 km because the turn of the Earth.

..or, one or 2 of my relay drones.

> >What you try to build up is an ISP + Carrier + Datacenter. Whooo much
> > stuff. There specialists out that only do one of there three things
> > and 
> >all have much to do with olny one area ....
> ;-)
> My OWN Project was the Creation of a CyberCenter which contains:
> 1)  InternetCafe		Based on Debian GNU/Linux
> 2)  Education Center for women  Informatic/Linux/Office
> 3)  WaveLAN-ISP			Only Localy.
> For this it is enough, if I have two E3 (34MBit), a "3Com NETBuilder 
> II" (8-Slot), one Proxim Tsunami MP.11a and the possibility of 
> Serverhosting. 
> Because Internet is realy expensive in Maroc and my Enterprise is 
> "non-lucrativ" I like to drop down the price under the ADSL. 
> But NOW:    450.000 DH (41.000 Euro) for ONE E3. Two times more 
> 	    expensive as in France and fife time more expensive 
> 	    as in Germany...
> OK, my plan is to create three CyberCenters...
> Fes, Casablanca and Marrakech.

..how about taking Tangier or Tetouan first?  Allows connecting to
Spain, Algeria or Gibraltar, and should cut link pricing "next time".

..also, consider adding the cities along the link spans, to the link
market, adding these to flying relays, is trivial and should be

> Each 2 x E3 and 68 MBit ??? 
> Or better two times an OC-3 with 311 MBit ???
> I have ask some friends in different Cities of Maroc and the IDEA was 
> born to create a second Internet-Network in Maroc. 
> A network like a belt. One side is the Atlantic coast and 
> the other side Algeria, where I have gotten some requests. 
> But this requires much more technic. 
> Now I like to check up the possibilities. 

..  ;-)

> I am Responsable for more the 180 Servers (26 my own), but never I
> have worked with a Network of this Dimension. In Kehl/Gemany it was
> done by UUnet and the DT-Systems with a CISCO Router and I had only to
> deal with a FastEthernet. 
> The OC-3 in Paris is managed by amen.fr my ISP. I have an GBit
> Repeater and my Servers are connected via 100Base-TX Links
> So nothing to do with ATM and somthing like this.
> >But that does not mean that you project is impossible, but what you
> >need to know can't be learned in 8 weeks ....
> I know ! - But it is not easy to get the right persons. 

..after those 8 weeks, then what?

> >IMHO you will need Moroc Telecom in one way or the other. At all for 
> >your connecivity. It's pretty similar in all countries.

..uhmmm, with my relay drones, there is also wiring in Algeria,
the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, mainland Spain and Gibraltar.
This eventually builds an incentive on the local telecom. ;-)

..and, is Maroc Telecom, or are the Maroccans really really really 
not interested in building a couple of new industries?  ;-)

> The "Maroc Telecom" is realy to expensive and Seabone is only a 
> Partner of the "Maroc Telecom" which mean, I need to use the POP's 
> of the "Maroc Telecom"...
> >Rgds,
> >Andreas
> Greetings
> Michelle

..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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