Re: failure notice (about relays.osirusoft.com)
> > > Been there. Seen it. There are two sides to this issue, and when
> > > you put 'em both on the same news group, you'd better expect
> > > flames, especially when they are so totally diametrically opposed.
> >
> > This only supports my previous statment that telling people to go to
NANAE
> > for so-called resolution is a farce.
>
> Not a farce. Have you ever listened to a really heated debate in any
> Western legislative body?
>
> Heated, is a mild term. Such forums are always nasty, heated, and
> difficult. You are making a cultural mistake.
Well, Thank God the chinese CCCP (China) party meetings aren't like that.
Can you imagine 1000's of leaders of each province getting into an "heated
discussion" like that?
And besides... having those western legistative ppl... in Australia, USA,
etc. acting like children, in front of everyone... is that really
something to be proud of?
> > > blars, like selward, lists entire net blocks. As I said, I find
this
> > > far to fanatical for my personal taste.
> >
> > Shall I remind you that OSIRUSOFT is blocking entire net blocks?
>
> Where did you get this information? As far as I know, that isn't
> the case, but as always, I'll look at anything.
Gladly.
Okay... have a look at:
http://openrbl.org/ip/202/85/189/66.htm
It says: Block: 202.85.160-202.85.191 IADVANTAGE HK @iadvantage.net
(but in actual fact, from 202.85.128.* - 203.194.191.* is blocked or
around that, see for your self below)
So... simple. Look at the first of the block, and look at the end, and
look at stuff in the middle if you wish:
http://openrbl.org/ip/202/85/160/1.htm (202.85.160.1)
http://openrbl.org/ip/202/85/128/1.htm (202.85.128.1)
http://openrbl.org/ip/203/194/150/1.htm (203.194.150.1)
http://openrbl.org/ip/203/194/191/1.htm (203.194.191.1)
So they are blocking the entire net block... not a portion of it.
Does the above answer your question conclusively?
The above is also a big chunk of HK IP netspace, fyi.
> Oh, and shall I remind *YOU* that I agreed to switch to visi for a week?
>
> And already, I'm getting three times the spam I was.
>
I never said using less aggressive lists will give you less spam.
In fact, if you block all of Asia altogether, you might get a lot less
because USA spammers abusing Asian networks and servers won't get their
spam to you.
But then, you would also get no legit mail from Asia at all. Maybe thats
acceptable to you, maybe not.
>
> > > > and also Joe Jared's own personal list. It is Joe Jared's own
> > > > personal list that is the problem . . .
> > >
> > > A problem for . . . who? You, personally?
> >
> > Shouldn't that be a problem for you as well?
>
> No. Why? Except for this short discussion with you, I have no
> need or interest in any of the "Amazing Offers!" sent to me
> from Asia, and no correspondents there. If I did, I would white list
> the one, particular address used by that correspondent.
Ah... but if I had not brought this to light, would you have even KNOWN
about what was happening? Also keep in mind... it was "mail sent FROM the
USA THROUGH Asia). People in Asia have no interest in your Penis
Enhancements, Breast Enlargers, Free Trips to Vegas, 0% APR Credit Card,
and all the rest of the crap that USA spammers send out.
>
> > You are using a list that is
> > contrived by a single person, including his own biased opinions, etc.
>
> Are there any other kind? Every organization is simply the combined
> biased opinions of it's leaders/perception management personnel.
Nope. Things like the Debian Constitution prevent any one person from
doing stupid and abusive things. Okay... it can happen, but by following
rules and guidelines set out, there is far less opportunity for things to
be abused and go wrong, don't you agree?
> > Are
> > you willing to let your orgainization's communications be controlled
by a
> > single person's biased opinions?
>
> Osirusoft, even when I used their list, did not control my
> communications. *I* do. I chose their list, I chose to try an
> experiment where I replaced osirusoft with visi, and at the rate I'm
> getting new spam now, I'll be choosing to switch back to osirusoft
> after this week is out.
Yes... you chose his list, but without knowing that he had personally and
privately added such netblocks.
Thats why I go with Linux... I know what is happening, I can see "under
the hood", change things.... tweak things. If I didn't want that
flexibility or capability, I would've gone with Windows.
Do you know what is in Joe Jared's list?
Places like ORDB.org... if you do a search for a listed IP, as the reason
it is listed, along with evidence, time tested, time submitted, etc. Same
goes with Spamcop... they actually store a copy of the spam for all to
see, so there is less chance for someone to abuse it. If the submitted
email obviously isn't spam, everyone can clearly see it isn't and remove
the IP.
Has Joe Jared said much, besides "go to NANAE"?
> > As I said, I FULLY SUPPORT blocking of abused open relays (ala ORDB
and
> > many others), and individual IPs (ala Spamcop and many others), but
not
> > the full blocking of netblocks or countries (ala Blars, xslwerard,
> > osirusoft, etc.).
>
> Oh, I agree. Which is why if you can show me some proof that osirusoft
> blocks entire netblocks because of the actions of a single *SEPARABLE*
> entity (the separable entity is an important point), I'll probably have
> to find a way to white list parts of osirusoft's list if/when I go back
> to 'em.
Well, see the above proof about osirusoft blocking entire netblocks... and
virtually blocking a large part of HK in one fell swoop.
> > http://www.declude.com/JunkMail/Support/ip4r.htm for a big list. It's
not
> > as if osirusoft is your only option ...
>
> No, they are not my only option. But they've been the best I've tried
> so far.
Osirusoft includes a lot of other RBLs along with it's own list. If you
chose the indiviual RBLs that osirusoft includes, you'd accomplish the
same thing. Then you would get to see what policies each RBL has, and
decide for YOURSELF what you accept/don't accept.
> > why you defend them so much eludes
> > me, especially with so many better lists out there.
>
> Because the others out there *AREN'T* better! For my needs (except for
> you, I have no need to receive any email from Asia, and after you get
> sick of trying to convert me, I'll be back to none), blocking most
> of Asia has worked to reduce my spam, while not costing me any
> communications I want or need.
Again... it's painfully obvious many of you do not communicate with Asia
at all.
Perhaps one day when communications with Asia becomes critical and
crucial... like now that China's entry into the WTO... makes a
difference.....
> Why you attack them so much, also eludes me. But beyond our shared
> dislike of blocking entire netblocks, we aren't going to agree.
Agreed. Well, if you don't like blocking entire netblocks... i've now
proven to you that Osirusoft privately blocks entire netblocks.
> No. I meant that MTA. Examples of spam from this address have
> been posted to NANE.
>
> > try 202.85.169.1 and many others around that
> > http://openrbl.org/ip/202/85/169/1.htm
> >
> > 202.85.153-178.* is being blocked, along with a lot more....
> >
> > 203.194.128-191 .* is another
>
> Are all of these owned by iAdvantage?
>
> or are they other HK ISP's?
iAdvantage as one entity. They are blocking entire netblocks.
Of course, there are probably tens.. hundreds of ISPs, hosting companies,
private organizations, etc. in there that are blocked at the same time.
See the above openrbl.org info, and you'll see what I mean.
>
> > As you can see, a good amount of HK is being blocked by OSIRUSOFT... a
lot
> > of HK that has nothing to do with spam.
>
> But none of the HK ISP's will even respond to spam complaints, and they
> will not terminate the accounts/access of spammers.
Please do not say none. Some do. But in the case of Osirusoft, it doesn't
matter... everyones block, not just the ones that don't act. Everyone's
been painted with the black brush.
>
> I accept that anybody who uses selwerd, for instance, as a pure block
> list isn't going to get my email. Nothing I can do about it, and
> like you, I feel like an innocent falsely accused, but it's his
> list, and the people who use his list are doing so of their own
> free will.
>
We're listed there too... nearly everyone i've looked up is there. Very
few people use them. I don't care if you or I are on it.
Osirusoft on the other hand is far more popular. That is why I am bringing
this to light.
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