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Re: failure notice (about relays.osirusoft.com)

On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 02:42:24PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> >
> > > SO... if you plan on receiving email from me or Asia, I suggest you
> use
> > > RBLs with clear listing and removal policies and methods (eg. the RBLs
> I
> > > listed above, and others),
> >
> > This is a good policy.  Using DNSBL's that don't have some
> > resolution method for a black listing is risky.  However, osirusoft
> > does have a resolution policy, contrary to your complaint.
> No they don't...

Yes, they do.  We can go back and forth on this all day, but they
do have a resolution policy.  The fact that you don't LIKE that
resolution policy, or that you PERSONALLY cannot satisfy the
requirements of that policy, doesn't mean they don't have one.

> > Simply fix the problem, then ask for a retest.  If you retest OK,
> > then you get taken off the BL.
> Not possible. Joe has not listed iAdvantage as an open relay, nor anything
> that you can get off.

Which means, quite simply, that iAdvantage hosts spammers, and refuses
to remove them.

> Hence there is no resolution method ...

Sure there is . . . for iAdvantage.

> you can visit
> the militany NANAE newsgroup for resolution, but if you take a look at the
> messages there.... ugh... swearing at each other, threats, etc. Take a
> look for yourself.

Been there.  Seen it.  There are two sides to this issue, and when
you put 'em both on the same news group, you'd better expect
flames, especially when they are so totally diametrically opposed.

> > Mind you, lists like xbl.selwerd.cx have neither a resolution policy,
> > NOR a nomination policy.  An ip address can end up being black
> > listed simply because some OTHER ip address initiated some spam.
> >
> > Now there is a list to REALLY complain about!
> Well, I don't think many people are really go and use xbl.selwerd.cx.

It would be a poor idea to use it as a BL.  Even they don't use
their own list to block, just to provide "warnings" (supposedly).

> There are plenty of super militany groups like selwerd like blars.org (i
> think?) and others.

blars, like selward, lists entire net blocks.  As I said, I find this
far to fanatical for my personal taste.

> > > and not relays.osirusoft.com (OR if you must
> > > use osirusoft, then use the pick and choose the individual RBLs under
> > > relays.orisusoft.com,
> >
> > What are you talking about?  There isn't, as far as I know, a "list of
> > RBL's under relays.osirusoft.com".  If you are refering to the ability
> > to query a number of DNSBL's through:
> >
> > http://relays.osirusoft.com/cgi-bin/rbcheck.cgi
> Sure they are. relays.osirusoft.com is a combination of other RBLS like
> spews,

Oh!  I see what you meant, now.  Yes, you are correct.

That's what I meant by a little cross fertilization.  But, most of
the RBL's queried by the query page are not feeds into osirusoft's list.

> and also Joe Jared's own personal list. It is Joe Jared's own
> personal list that is the problem . . .

A problem for . . . who?  You, personally?

> > No, osirusoft does NOT combine a great many RBL's together, though
> > there does appear to be some cross fertilization between the various
> > lists.
> I beg to differ. Alternatively, go there, and enter, just for example,
> mailserv.iadvantage.net.

I just did.  mail.iadvantage.net resolves to:

When I query against relays.osirusoft.com, a is returned.

And since this MTA is being used by spammers and spamvertisers,
it is quite reasonably black listed.

DNSBL's cannot pick and choose between users of a single MTA.

Therefore, osirusoft DOES have a resolution policy.  Get
iAdvantage to terminate the accounts of its spammers, make
sure its servers are secure, ask for retest for forms sake,
then request that they be removed.

But so long as spammers are using the SAME MTA as you are,
you will be black listed, because quite simply, DNSBL's
cannot differentiate between "good" users and "bad" users
of the same MTA.

John S.

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