Re: About Debian edu manual terminology, etc.
Dear Holger Levsen,
On 5/9/19 1:48 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 01:27:23AM +0900, hoxp18 wrote:
Holger Levsen gave me great advices about ML and terminology,
so I send my reply to ML now.
thank you. I'll reply to some bits of your mail and hope others will
chime in on the other questions.
and I thank you, too; You encouraged me. I'm very happy.
I wrote some on the Weblate, and quote it here.
(I'm not sure what you exactly mean here. So I will just make a general
comment: if you find that something is hard to translate, (usually) dont
try to make the translation more verbose. Instead, make the english
original more clear, so that all translations will benefit.)
Perhaps, as you say, I also should consider about making
the original more clear; it is tough for me now, lacking knowledge.
As I start building my test env, I may be able to do it bit by bit.
Added extra explanations about "architecture" since it may confuse
users; As a title and/or general English term, or as a technical term,
CPU architecure such as amd64, arm, mips, or network architecture
as topological design, etc.
In addition to that, non-info-tech people in Japan may consider the
term "architecture" as a building design, etc.
the audience of the manual are *not* people who know nothing about
computers. the audience of the manual are teachers (and other people)
who have some knowledge about computers.
I know this is a vague definition of audience, but its better than
nothing ;)
Ack. I personally assume some "computer-nerd-school-teachers";)
In short, we should be very careful about the "architecture"
in this manual; At least it could be one of "geranal term",
"CPU arch", "network design".
-- from the source;
"The computers running Debian Edu / Skolelinux must have either
32 bit (Debian architecture 'i386', oldest supported processors
are 686 class ones) or 64 bit (Debian architecture 'amd64')
x86 processors."
So, I translated,
* Wiki and manual's TOC title "Architecture"
-> as something "overview of the system" in Japanese.
Ah. Yes, the chapter is called "Architecture", which is something quite
different from a "CPU architecture". Maybe we should indeed rename the
"Architecture" chapter into something else, like "Design" or "Design
principles".
That said, it's definitly also ok, to translate one English word into
two different Japanese/other language words, if the English one has two
meanings, like it has here.
* CPU archs -> simply in katakana; it's de-fact standard tech term.
* Network "architecture" -> a bit implicit Japanese, not katakana.
I feel katakana "Architecture" may confuse people,
depending who and what kind of job work for.
I trust you that you can find the right words in Japanese! :)
I got it. I'll try to find the right one.
Until then, I focus on reading/building-test-env to translate
the no-Japanese-translation-available sections.
e.g.)
* IT tech: both "structure of system" and "CPU arch"
* construction: "building"
Since Debian-Edu involves many fields,
I think there should be some explicit rules about this term.
which term exactly?
well, I'm no so sure. As you told me above,
the English "Architecture" in the guide should be one of,
1. "Design" or "Design principles" in Japanese, for titles and network.
2. "CPU and/or Debian Architecture"; simple katakana works.
(excluding some construction specific high schools; "building")
* "Main server"
Fuzzy. I feel the Japanese term as "a centric server",
And what kind of center, then?
"Main server" is the term used in d-i when installing, see
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Buster/Installation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=08-Choose_Debian_Edu_profile.png
so in the manual translation you should use what is used there
(when doing the installation in Japanese), which according to
https://sources.debian.org/src/debian-edu-install/2.10.21/debian/po/ja.po/#L40
should be:
msgid "Main Server"
msgstr "主サーバ"
Yes, but in the Japanese manual, it's not.
That term "主サーバ" means "main" almost exactly.
Current Japanese manual uses different Japanese term.
then please fix the manual! :) If "主サーバ" means "Main Server" and is
the term used in the software, than "主サーバ" should definitlty also be
used in the manual.
Okay.
I need to build my env ASAP to confirm
how "Debian Edu in Japanese" looks like first, then.
Give me some time for this.
On the other hand, current Japanese manual describes it
"中心サーバ", sounds like "centric server" or "center server".
the current translation might very well be not the best possible one.
I myself cannot decide/choose about this.
I hope now you can.
For the time being, I keep current "中心サーバー" in the maual.
When I'm convinced, I'll fix them.
Current Japanese manual uses katakana "デフォルト" for "default".
Tech people understand it, yes.
If the manual is just for those IT-tech people, I think it's fine,
just I do not like it; avoid using it.
as said, the manual is for IT savy teachers.
Ack. I'll keep exisiting ones as it is.
ask the list :) maybe ask a Japanese debian user list instead of the Edu
list? though there is at least one other Japanese speaker lurking on the
list :)
True. I should ask the ja-ML (not now, later...)
yes
I subscribed the ML; read-only now...
I just expected if some one in edu knows some de-fact in Debian Edu.
Apology about this.
no need to apology! we definitly know about Debian Edu, just correct terms are
really a difficult things, eg. for long times we had
'thinclient-servers' which were much more than 'thinclient-servers' but
we kept using this name as it was stuck.
Yes, it is hard to do; especially "client" and "workstation",
(I think most Japanese do not know/use them,
except IT-techs and some enterprise class office workers.)
Thank you for reading this. Have a nice day.
thanks & you too!
Thank you (again), sorry about very long and complicated post.
that's very fine. it shows nicely how much effort you put into this.
(and you also correctly point out some difficulties in writing a
technical text :)
It is very true; writing/translating technical text simple, precise,
and easy, is VERY difficult. You Debian Edu team did it. Wow.
Regards.
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