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Re: About Debian edu manual terminology, etc.

To: Debian-Edu team and Holger Levsen

Holger Levsen gave me great advices about ML and terminology,
so I send my reply to ML now.

On 5/8/19 10:38 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Mon, May 06, 2019 at 05:47:54PM +0900, hoxp18@noramail.jp wrote:
BTW, though I've just started translations on weblate,
I also felt a few Japanese expressions in the existing manual a bit fuzzy,
since I started reading them, "en" and "ja" versions.

In other words, I'm confused.

I don't think it's not time for discuss about them
on the debian-edu-ML, yet.
I *do* think it's much better to discuss this on the list. If you ask
me, you only get my thoughts and only if I have time. On the list there
are more people, so you might a.) get better replies and b.) faster

Thank you for telling me very kindly.

If you don't mind, please take a look at these,

* "Architecture"

   as a TOC title, and such like amd64.
   should they differ? or katakana only?

sorry, I dont understand the question. "amd64" is one specific
architecture, "i386" is the other one supported by Debian Edu.

I wrote some on the Weblate, and quote it here.

 Added extra explanations about "architecture" since it may confuse
 users; As a title and/or general English term, or as a technical term,
 CPU architecure such as amd64, arm, mips, or network architecture
 as topological design, etc.

 In addition to that, non-info-tech people in Japan may consider the
 term "architecture" as a building design, etc.

 In short, we should be very careful about the "architecture"
 in this manual; At least it could be one of "geranal term",
 "CPU arch", "network design".

 -- from the source;
 "The computers running Debian Edu / Skolelinux must have either
  32 bit (Debian architecture 'i386', oldest supported processors
  are 686 class ones) or 64 bit (Debian architecture 'amd64')
  x86 processors."

So, I translated,

* Wiki and manual's TOC title "Architecture"
  -> as something "overview of the system" in Japanese.

* CPU archs -> simply in katakana; it's de-fact standard tech term.

* Network "architecture" -> a bit implicit Japanese, not katakana.

I feel katakana "Architecture" may confuse people,
depending who and what kind of job work for.

* IT tech: both "structure of system" and "CPU arch"
* construction: "building"

Since Debian-Edu involves many fields,
I think there should be some explicit rules about this term.

* "Main server"

   Fuzzy. I feel the Japanese term  as "a centric server",

   And what kind of center, then?

"Main server" is the term used in d-i when installing, see

so in the manual translation you should use what is used there
(when doing the installation in Japanese), which according to
should be:

msgid "Main Server"
msgstr "主サーバ"

Yes, but in the Japanese manual, it's not.
That term "主サーバ" means "main" almost exactly.

Current Japanese manual uses different Japanese term.

I write about it below.

Of course, I have no idea if thats a good translation :)

   e.g.) a classroom? a floor? a network segment?
         an entier school? school networks?
         (a school can have remote buildings and/or sites.)

   Some Japanese may feel existing translation as "an exactly one",
   some may feel it just "central"; fuzzy about "an exact one."

   To emphasize "exactly one main server, the tjener."
   some other Japanese expression can be considered.

   I'm thinking about it; simply "main" in katakana or in kanji,
   or something like "stem", or "tjener" katakana expression.

no idea, sorry.

   (I keep existing expressions, of course.)

In English manual, "main server" sounds fine for me.

On the other hand, current Japanese manual describes it
"中心サーバ", sounds like "centric server" or "center server".

For me, it (the Japanese one) sounds like "a center of circles or
some other structures"; something potentially multiple.

That's why I wrote the examples above. And,

* I cannot find the reason why it differs from "main".
* although "main" in katakana is common as a Japanese word,
* and "main server" is a very important term.

That's why I ask.

That name, "main server" should imply something numericaly single
and act as master, while "中心サーバ" ("center/centric server") does not.

My current suggestions and explanations/opinions:

1. "main" in katakana = "メインサーバー"
   it has less "master-slave" impication,
   and has "the one" implication.

2. "main" in kanji, msgstr above; "主サーバー"
  has more "master-slave" implication than "メインサーバー".

  Some may expect there are some "sub/slave servers"
    or something fault-torelant redeundant servers,

  I cannot explain about this nice and easy, sorry.

    * the kanji "主" implies its royal-servant/assitant,
      such like a phrase "主従".
      (Imagine some samurai like society.)

    * "主" also coupled with "副" = "sub",
       so "主サーバー" implies some "副サーバー(sub servers)"

3. "center" in kanji but slightly different from current one.

  + current one "中心" is "center" and/or "centric".

  + candidate, "中央" is "central" alike, feels more "only one",
    just like "central goverment", "central station", etc.

4. "tjener" in katakana, though I do not know how it sounds like.
   it would be unique, so "only one" implication there.

I myself cannot decide/choose about this.

In short:

* "main server" should have "single/only-one" numerical implication.
* current Japanese "中心" means less numerical; just positional.
* and it differs from "main". It's "center/centric".
* I think simple katakana version of "main server" works.

* "Default"

   The term in Japanese itself (katakana one) is confusing.

   For tech people it's "initial setting".
   For financial and news paper title, somthing like "a bankrupt".

   I personally do not think "default" is a nice term.

   Everytime I see it, I want to translate it into
   something like "initial setting".

sorry, I fear I cannot help here...

Current Japanese manual uses katakana "デフォルト" for "default".

Tech people understand it, yes.

If the manual is just for those IT-tech people, I think it's fine,
just I do not like it; avoid using it.

* "初期設定" = "initial setting" (strictly "initial")
* "標準設定" = "standard setting" (>= and/or != "initial setting")
* "factory setting"; it varies and long.

Because "out-of-box" are used in the English manual,
I personally recommend "初期設定(initial setting)" instead of
"デフォルト(default in katakana)".

* NIC names: ethN

   Both Stretch and Buster now uses enpXsYfZ styles.
Will it be changed?


Then, perhaps some notes about it may make the manual
more friendly, I think, since ethN names are not listed
in /sys/class/net now.

* Japanese env in Debian

   I think Google did a great job. fonts-noto and mozc.

   There are too many Japanese input method editors,
   and unfortunately it would cause some problems.

   I personally prefer Google Mozc - IBus with Noto fonts.

   I wonder what some other Japanese people (in debian-edu-ML) think.

ask the list :) maybe ask a Japanese debian user list instead of the Edu
list? though there is at least one other Japanese speaker lurking on the
list :)

True. I should ask the ja-ML (not now, later...)

I just expected if some one in edu knows some de-fact in Debian Edu.

Apology about this.

Thank you for reading this. Have a nice day.

thanks & you too!

Thank you (again), sorry about very long and complicated post.


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