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Re: Free software world conference



El mar, 30-01-2007 a las 21:29 +0100, RalfGesellensetter escribió:
> Dear José
> 
> thanks for your quick reply!
> ...
> > > thanks for those links. I do read a little bit of Spanish, but I
> > > feel that the arguements for the LinEx project should be made
> > > availble on a more international level.
> >
> > I don't understand what you mean. DebianEdu is a international level.
> > More than enough for me, at least at the technical layer.
> 
> What I meant, is the political discussion and the benefits which are 
> drawn from free software by the local economy. 
> 
> ...

Agreed

> 
> > yes, ;-) I know the report, in fact you can watch me speaking at
> > 1'20" in the video. We have it translated in some languages
> > (portuguese, german, spanish, french, english and italian), you can
> > take a look at: http://www.linex.org/linex2/euro-n/
> 
> Brilliant *leap* - if you knew how much I tried to find a German 
> version! I even had sent mails to Euronews channel.
> >
> > > As for Gambas, BTW: could you possibly point me to its BTS? I
> > > started using it in class today - and my kids loved it! Just the
> > > sample applications should be able to run in write protected mode
> > > (otherwise it is tricky to locate them for cloning).
> >
> > There is no BTS, all the bugs are discussed through the mailing list,
> > as you can check at http://gambas.sourceforge.net/tr-report.html
> 
> Thank you for this information as well...
> 
> > About what you say, it's hard to be fixed: gambas needs to compile
> > the sources before executing the examples, but , as definition,
> > gambas always writes the compiled files in the same directory the
> > sources are, in a hidden directory called .gambas. As part of the
> 
> This is more or less what I guessed to be the reason. But you must 
> admit, that the (really good!) idea to offer sample projects at startup 
> is next to useless if you cannot try out those samples. I see two 
> approaches for solution:
> - use writable directories in /tmp for compilation
> - offer a "save as" feature to copy sample projects straight away to 
> your home folder.
> 
> > Gambas policy, all the files must be in the same directory: sources,
> > images, etc. For the examples you can copy the directory to your home
> > and execute them from it. The problem you've found could be my fault,
> > as I maintain the packages in Debian. Gambas makefiles compile the
> > examples, and in the past I included the binaries in the gambas-doc
> > package, and you could execute the examples from
> > /usr/share/gambas/examples as they didn't need to be compiled. But
> 
> I understand.
> 
> > having compiled files in
> > the /usr/share/xxx directory is not a good thing for the Debian
> > policy, so I patch the makefiles to avoid the binaries to be included
> > in the package. The result is that you can load, see and dig into the
> > examples but need to copy them to a directory with writing
> > permissions to be able to modify or execute it.
> 
> Yes. I understand. Would a "save as" menu entry be hard to implement?
> Or just extend the file selector by a 3rd icon for samples (home, root, 
> samples)

Not, "save as" is a good idea, I will take a look at the IDE code and
send a patch to the upstream author. Gambas IDE is also made in gambas,
so it's pretty easy to understand and modify it.

> > Anyway, you can go to the gambas-devel mailing list trying to force
> > the compiler to compile in a temporary directory if it can not do it
> > in the sources dir, but I'm afraid that option will be hardly
> > accepted by the main upstream author.
> 
> OK. If it can be done by a patch, we could discuss about adding this 
> patch as part of Debianization...
> 
> > And for your kids, gambas could be a really good option, as you get
> > quick results easily, and students like to see a graphic application
> > soon, not after months of console compilations. The current IDE
> > (1.9.47 version) is probably one of the best IDE in the free source
> 
> I tried to install Gambas2 on Sarge first, but it didn't work. Then I 
> went for 
> 	deb http://apt.linex.org/linex/gambas/1.0.16/sarge/ ./
> which is already very neat. 

That's a sarge backport for LinEx, that include an Etch backport of gtk.
Excluding gambas2-gb-gtk (and the metapackage gambas2 that has it as a
dependency) you should be able to install the rest of the packages in
Sarge.

> The IDE is so much faster than, say netbeans 
> (which we use in 12th grade). 
> 
> > world, And if you use it to teach programming, you can take your
> > students from the old basic to OOP using the same environment.
> 
> As for this, I believe that it is better to make a cut and start from 
> scratch to make sure there is no non-OOP remainders left ;)
> And our (recently) centralized A-level exams demand Java (or Pascal) as 
> programming language anyway. But as a quick start for programming in 
> 9th or 10th grade, Gambas is realy great. And the crab is just cute!

I hope you can give a try. Since a couple of years I try to use only
three "languages": bash for sysadmin tasks, gambas for Desktop apps and
Smalltalk (Squeak flavour) for multimedia and pleasure programming (if
you like OOP, Smalltalk is a delight). I know there are many options
more, but I really feel confortable and productive with these ones, and
cover most of the programming paradigms and needs.

Regards. 
José L.

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