[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: libsystemd [was: Re: Is missing SysV-init support a bug?]

[2016-08-29 18:30] Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
> part       text/plain                1918
> Dmitry Bogatov <kaction@ruggedinbox.com> writes:
> > Socket is not bad thing. Inventing daemon for no reason is complicating
> > things for no reason => bad.  Thanks history, we have pid files, not
> > `libpid' to talk to `pidd'.
> Uh, the daemon in question is the init daemon?  Which has been there since
> the beginning of UNIX?  You kind of need that daemon.  You can't do
> without it.  :)

I know that pid 1 is daemon, that one must have. And this daemon, for
sake of simplicity, should just boot system.

I do not buy your argument, that since we already have daemon, lets just
put another optional functionality in it.

> PID files are an ugly hack and have *always* been an ugly hack.  I cannot
> tell you the number of obnoxious edge cases I've had to deal with around
> PID files: files getting created at the wrong time, with the wrong
> ownership, in directories that aren't writable by the process and
> therefore fail, with invalid contents, or truncated, or reused for some
> other purpose and now with bizarre and undocumented syntax, or kept around
> after the host reboots and they become irrelevant, or used entirely
> unsafely because the original daemon is long-gone, the PID space has
> wrapped, and now that PID is pointing to sshd and gets happily killed by
> something that blindly trusts the PID file.  They're not something anyone
> would want to use voluntarily.

I agree, that pid-files are not blessing, especially when we have
runit/daemontools/s6, which makes them unneeded.

But if I had to choose between pidfiles or linking to `libpid' to talk
with `pidd' (especially, if it is part of pid 1), I would choose

> > I would be interested to know of more selling points of libsystemd, but
> > discussion how to implement them in simple way does not belong to
> > debian-devel, but to upstream projects lists.
> I'm discussing it on debian-devel because so many of the arguments against
> systemd on the grounds of its supposed contrariness to UNIX demonstrate
> the most appalling ignorance of UNIX, and I think it's useful to talk
> about *specifics* instead of general political positions on systemd as an
> abstract Platonian ideal.  We're making a free UNIX distribution.  We
> should care *deeply* about the specifics; that's the best way to make good
> decisions.  And we should be connoisseurs of good ideas, whatever their
> source.

Accept: text/plain, text/x-diff
Accept-Language: eo,en,ru
X-Web-Site: sinsekvu.github.io

Reply to: