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Re: libsystemd [was: Re: Is missing SysV-init support a bug?]

[2016-08-28 06:26] Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>
> part       text/plain                2020
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:33:36AM +0300, Dmitry Bogatov wrote:
> > > > I hugely support idea of dynamically loading libsystemd.
> > >
> > > Please don't, no.  While I do think packages should keep sysvinit
> > > support as long as it continues to work and doesn't make other paths
> > > worse, I don't think it makes sense to omit linking to libsystemd, or to
> > > dlopen it at runtime.
> >
> > Extra useless dependency. This is case when I miss Gentoo's use-flags.
> But _why_ would you want to avoid libsystemd?  Its only bad effect is
> wasting a negligible amount of disk space and a few pages memory.  Do you
> recompile for example clementine/amarok/rhythmbox/banshee without libgpod
> just because you don't own such an ancient piece of iCrap?  Unless you go
> really deeply embedded, fighting such slight bloat is not worth your time.

I am not member, but I share this manifest [http://suckless.org/philosophy].

I do not use clementine/amarok/... stuff. I didn't knew about libgpod,
dependency on X to just play music is already too much for me.

Question is not megabytes. Question is Right Thing. And systemd moves
wrong direction -- to complexity, not simplicity. Why should I care
about program I do not use?

But also it affects things I do care of -- programs I use every day.
And somehow systemd project seduces them. (Damn, even tor is now
conditionally depends on libsystemd.)

I do not see how can I prevent it, but I do my best to protect myself
from this complexity madness. Thanks to Debian, I can do it. It's like
moving to Gentoo, but better.

> [41270.363362] Killed process 14533 (firefox) total-vm:3598348kB,

I do not use it either. Firefox does not affects in any way 'surf' or 'w3m',
which I use.

> > If I don't like libsystemd dependency, I am in much worse position,
> > since I have to rebuild really a lot of packages. Yes, we have
> > `angband.pl' repository, but this not systematic solution.
> As I'm the guy behind that repository, my reason for recompiling everything
> without libsystemd is not pruning this small dependency -- it's a cheap way
> to ascertain programs use non-systemd code paths.

I agree with this target.

> It'd be nice if all of them did the detection at runtime, but
> unfortunately some (like policykit-1) have mutually exclusive code
> paths that get chosen at compile time.  By compiling with no systemd
> libraries, I can be sure all such pitfalls are avoided.  But that's
> only a short-term gain.

Runtime detection... complexity, complexity again.

Not to start flame or to advertize anything/anyone, but why to
integrate with 'runit' init system, your program should support
foreground operation and logging on stdout, and to integrate with
systemd, it should link with library?

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