Re: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system
On 16/02/2015 16:14, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> 2015-02-16 16:26 GMT+01:00 Alastair McKinstry <alastair.mckinstry@sceal.ie>:
>> [...]
>> An an example, i've been a long-term linux developer, DD; i've developed
>> and promoted Linux not just on the desktop but both in embedded systems
>> and in HPC systems. In all these I've been comfortable that I've been
>> able to adapt Linux, reconfigure, do what was needed to get it going on
>> any size of device, and get my changes either accepted upstream,
>> maintain them locally in my organisation or both. With systemd I don't
>> think I could do that, and thats very disempowering.
> Why do you think you can't do that anymore? Systemd is used on
> embedded devices, reaching from the Jolla smartphone to things like
> the Vocore or Raspberry Pi.
> Getting changes accepted upstream is also not a hard thing, systemd is
> not different from any other upstream we have. Suure, there will be
> patches which are not in-scope, some will receive criticism, need to
> be adapted and rewritten, but that happens basically everywhere.
> For projects using systemd features, adapting them to do what you want
> also shouldn't be a problem, and the systemd unit files (from the
> initsystem part of it) can easily be changed and overridden to serve
> custom needs.
> So, do you have concrete bad experience? If so, working on that and
> fixing the associated bugs would be a useful thing to do.
>
The breakage of compatibility of existing systems (e.g. with /usr on a
separate partition) has left a sour taste. I spent a weekend repairing
an upgrade after that one. My expectations of getting 'interesting' new
configurations such as Debian for Drones(TM) accepted are not high.
Compared to existing systems, systemd is tightly integrated by design.
Dropping components, customising components becomes much harder. If I
develop a new type of networking, for example, it might be 2-3 years
before my code is accepted into mainstream kernels/ setups. In the
meantime, i'm maintaining a fork myself.
With the current modular design the amount of code I need to maintain
is small. In a systemd-type world, I have to learn to integrate it with
systemd, and maintain a fork of systemd.
I have real problems with this lack of modularity.
Alastair
>> [...]
> Cheers,
> Matthias
>
> P.S: Does this really have to be crossposted to -user and -devel?
>
>
--
Alastair McKinstry, <alastair@sceal.ie>, <mckinstry@debian.org>, https://diaspora.sceal.ie/u/amckinstry
Misentropy: doubting that the Universe is becoming more disordered.
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