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Re: Reality check.


Bjoern Meier:
> >  I entirely concur his language was unacceptable.
> Really? All that because of that a human being used an emotional
> language?

Yes. Human beings are perfectly able to communicate dislike for another
human's actions in a way that does not imply disrespect for that person.

Therefore, not using that ability implies a bunch of ideas like "don't
care whether the person this is directed at is hurt/offended/?!?", "don't
care if this list is full of invectives and personal attacks", "it's OK not
to differentiate between personal attacks and disagreements about $SUBJECT",
and whatnot.

The exact implications depend on the recipients' culture and socialization,
which is why this is not an easy problem to solve. Especially if the sender
does not understand that.

> Is a proper language more useful than that "we"?

There are enough people out there who choose not to participate in an
environment where that kind of language is rampant. You don't know at whom
it's going to be directed next.

<personal aside>
I myself do not have that thick a skin and do not WANT to NEED a safety
shield every time I post on a Debian list.

It should not be surprising that I switched to Ubuntu, ten years or so ago.
Well, I'm back here because Debian has become much better at this, and
franky I want to stay because I can learn a lot here. But I'd be unable to
do that if our discussion culture reverts back to what it was.

Do we _really_ want to limit participation in Debian to the typical Western
white group of thick-skinned guys (and the VERY occasional gal) who can
(and, more to the point, _want_to_) tolerate that kind of culture where
makign a mistake will get you fried to a crisp?

I don't know about you, but I do not.

> I prefer a trustworthy, emotional community over a "smile before me
> and stab me from behind"-community.
This is not a dichotomy. Most people are perfectly able to be emotional
without being hurtful.


All that being said, I do agree that Thorsten has a valid point and that
the actions of the maintainer he flamed do in turn imply disrespect.

But that's a separate problem.

-- Matthias Urlichs

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