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Re: Reality check.

Geeks don't complain
Geeks don't worry 


On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

> Hi,
> Bjoern Meier:
> > >  I entirely concur his language was unacceptable.
> > 
> > Really? All that because of that a human being used an emotional
> > language?
> Yes. Human beings are perfectly able to communicate dislike for another
> human's actions in a way that does not imply disrespect for that person.
> Therefore, not using that ability implies a bunch of ideas like "don't
> care whether the person this is directed at is hurt/offended/?!?", "don't
> care if this list is full of invectives and personal attacks", "it's OK not
> to differentiate between personal attacks and disagreements about $SUBJECT",
> and whatnot.
> The exact implications depend on the recipients' culture and socialization,
> which is why this is not an easy problem to solve. Especially if the sender
> does not understand that.
> > Is a proper language more useful than that "we"?
> There are enough people out there who choose not to participate in an
> environment where that kind of language is rampant. You don't know at whom
> it's going to be directed next.
> <personal aside>
> I myself do not have that thick a skin and do not WANT to NEED a safety
> shield every time I post on a Debian list.
> It should not be surprising that I switched to Ubuntu, ten years or so ago.
> Well, I'm back here because Debian has become much better at this, and
> franky I want to stay because I can learn a lot here. But I'd be unable to
> do that if our discussion culture reverts back to what it was.
> Do we _really_ want to limit participation in Debian to the typical Western
> white group of thick-skinned guys (and the VERY occasional gal) who can
> (and, more to the point, _want_to_) tolerate that kind of culture where
> makign a mistake will get you fried to a crisp?
> I don't know about you, but I do not.
> > I prefer a trustworthy, emotional community over a "smile before me
> > and stab me from behind"-community.
> > 
> This is not a dichotomy. Most people are perfectly able to be emotional
> without being hurtful.
> ===
> All that being said, I do agree that Thorsten has a valid point and that
> the actions of the maintainer he flamed do in turn imply disrespect.
> But that's a separate problem.
> -- 
> -- Matthias Urlichs

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