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Re: systemd-fsck?

Op dinsdag 13 mei 2014 19:36:35 schreef Thorsten Glaser:
> Thijs Kinkhorst dixit:
> >I could not agree more. In our enterprise environment, I have no
> >expectation at all that systemd will cause us significant trouble on
> >upgrades. Our troubles have centered things like grub1 to grub2 or,
> Yes, there were issues with e.g. grub1 to grub2, but do you honestly
> think that sysadmins in a medium-sized company will cope with these?

Yes! No problem.

> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
> • journal
> • totally different ways to handle services
> • totally different ways to rescue a system that does not boot
>   cleanly any more
> • the init system breaking init scripts hand-written by people
>   who don’t really know what they’re doing, have not even heard
>   of LSB, much less “units”

We're already in the habit of using "service $foo start", because you do not 
want the nl_NL locale of the sysadmin starting Tomcat to leak into the app 
it's running. Our admins are very versed at working with rsyslog, which will 
still be there, so I expect no problems. We indeed discovered some half-baked 
init scripts in the dependency based boot transition, which proved to be an 
excellent opportunity to actually fix those up and we were better off after.

> I’m *positive* they won’t.

One thing that strikes me in your mail is the underlying sentiment that 
enterprise admins would be averse of change. Environments and technologies 
around us are changing constantly, and at our job we need to cope with such 
things as a new backup solution, changed network policies, rolling out IPv6, 
virtualizating systems, changing from one virtualization to another and then 
another, investigating ceph, building a DNSSEC-enabled DNS infrastructure, 
changing insights in SSL protocols and ciphers, or even just in-Debian changes 
like a new Django release or moving from Tomcat 6 to Tomcat 7. Something will 
probably change for us admins when systemd comes, although I doubt it will be 
as major as you imagine. Nonetheless, our admins are very well equipped to 
cope with something changing or working differently than it did before.


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