Re: systemd and Linux are *fundamentally incompatible* -> and I can prove it
On 03/30/2014 08:02 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> If it's been decided to continue to require package maintainers to
> provide traditional init scripts as well as systemd unit files - e.g.
> for Debian's non-Linux ports - then that benefit would be lost.
This, also, has also been discussed. The consensus is that we shouldn't
*force* anyone to provide / design anything but systemd support,
however, everyone should also accept patches by those who care about
non-linux ports or $alternative-init-system.
> If it hasn't, then I think it's entirely foreseeable that package
> maintainers will at some point stop providing traditional init scripts.
They should absolutely *not* remove init scripts that are working. If
someone does, I would advise to first politely ask him to revert the
regression. And probably asking the TC to force the maintainer to do so
if he refuses would be a good idea.
Now, not providing an init script for a *new* package is something
different. I would expect to soon see patches being sent to the BTS by
non-linux port supporters, or people willing to use the package without
systemd.
Though what I wrote above is only what has been *discussed*, there was
no formal decision of what must happen. I dislike this gray area. :(
> At that point, unless a means of producing init scripts from unit files
> (which, last I heard, had been judged impossible) has been found, the
> amount of work required to continue to run sysvinit would be far more
> than the terminology of "changing the default" implies.
I don't agree. We currently, at this point, have 100% full support for
sysv-rc LSB-header scripts. I don't see it going away that fast.
> To be doing more than changing the default here is not necessarily a bad
> thing, but we shouldn't be pretending that changing the default is all
> that's happening
We haven't set into the stones of the Debian Policy Manual what init
system *must* be supported by packages. Obviously, systemd being the
default, it must be supported, but probably, through sysv-rc script is a
way to support it. Not supporting sysv-rc is of course a bug, but of
which severity? Wishlist? Release critical?
We've been fighting on which init system should be the default, but I
think those questions are even more important, and I don't have an
answer to them.
> unless choosing something other than the default
> really is - and, barring another project-wide decision, is expected to
> indefinitely continue to be - as simple as installing one set of
> packages rather than another.
See above: I'm unsure Debian Developers have yet a clear view of what
should / must be supported, and what's going to happen in this regard.
At least, it's not clear to me.
Thomas
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