Re: debian mate
Am 22.11.2012 16:57, schrieb Ian Jackson:
Michael Schmitt writes ("Re: debian mate"):
Am 21.11.2012 10:30, schrieb Neil Williams:
As part of the Debian release team it is Adam's call to make. He's
declared his decision which is fully in line with the freeze policy and
that's that. There is no point even thinking about MATE in Wheezy any
longer. It's done, closed, ended - denied. Move along now, nothing to
Please calm down. Please, don't domineer opinions of others based on
such questionable arguments. I really prefer the open-minded approach
here. You don't have to agree but to just say "They said no, so stop
bickering" feels horribly wrong.
Neil's message was entirely appropriate.
I guess I did get lost in time there... somewhat. Because as I answered
his mail I thought he wrote that after I already told *numerous* times
that I had droped my "insane suggestion". I still think his tone was too
harsh, but I may be a bit sensitive there, so an overall apology is
needed from my part.
Like so many of these kind of arguments with are controversial outside
Debian as well as within Debian, many of the people here aren't aware
of how we do things here, who is in charge, and what decisions have
That was one of the problems... I was not aware that there was already a
decision made. I had the *strong* impression everybody just assumed it
would be too late and not worth bothering anyway. See, I am so damn
convinced, that with wheezy many desktop users will be lost and grumpy
and that is very very unfortunate. Anyway. I thought what if most
maintainers don't see the desktop users at all and for sure, all
maintainers that are concerned of desktop users as they package
desktop-related stuff like KDE, Xfce and so on and so forth would just
be interested in their own consumers. The gnome2-users just do not have
any lobby anymore, as most gnome-maintainers seem to be very happy with
gnome3 these days. So I took the liberty to become their lobby! :D.
If I re-read my mails here, I still think I made a not-so-bad job with
that. I was rather polite, calm and focused. Not trying to battle with
anyone, just trying to make a point. And I hope those willing to think
about the whole issue would at least grant me that.
And for the record, the details are somewhat blurry, but as I use Debian
for almost 10 years now at least the overall workflow is not a mystery
to me. :)
Everything Neil said was entirely true. And discussing it further is
just wasting everyone's time.
If anyone feels that the Debian Release Team have made the wrong
decision here, there are escalation routes available within the
project. You have been told that they don't want to discuss it
And that was about the time I dropped my idea. Many many thanks to Russ
there. It was a pleasure to discuss that utterly insane suggestion in a
very calm and polite way. He did convince me, the best thing that can
happen with such issues. As I am very committed and a strong believer in
the gnome2^wMATE-ish way of ui-design, I don't like orders and decisions
without merit there.
And on that note, Russ was the only one from TC kind of voting for
"no"... at least I had (and still do) no idea the TC already discussed
the issue and came to a negative conclusion. And I did think about
raising that issue in front of the them but decided to drop the idea
before it came that far.
So if you don't like that decision it should be escalated to the
Technical Committee. But I can tell you now that if you escalate to
the TC you will get short shrift. (Or what passes for short shrift
within the TC, anyway.)
I guess you may be right. :)
So Neil was right to say "drop it".
It was not what he said, but how he said it. But as already said... I
may be overly sensitive there. :)