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Re: Override changes standard -> optional

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:31:40PM +0100, Michael Tautschnig wrote:
> > > strace
> > > mtr-tiny

> > I think these are useful troubleshooting tools that we ought to install by
> > default.  mtr-tiny is the only traceroute tool included in standard
> > currently.

> > For comparison, both of these packages are part of the Ubuntu standard
> > system.

> > I think we ought to even consider adding gdb in addition to strace, size
> > allowing, since these two tools are rather complementary in their use; but
> > certainly, I'd prefer having strace over not having either.

> Is "standard" in some sense also targeted at those who do lots of stuff
> other than hacking with their computer systems?

mtr-tiny is not a "hacking" tool any more than "ping" or "whois" is.

Actually, I misspoke in saying that mtr-tiny is the only traceroute we have
by default.  iputils-traceroute is also installed at Priority: important; but
iputils-traceroute is far less useful on modern networks than mtr-tiny is.

If traceroute belongs in important, then mtr belongs in standard.

> If so, I doubt that the the output of strace will be very useful to those,

The same argument easily applies to the output of 'dig', which is included
in dnsutils at Priority: standard.  Nevertheless, having it available by
default is useful for troubleshooting purposes when a problem has been
escalated to the corresponding "support" personnel (via a Debian bug report,
by handing your computer to your local expert, or whatever).

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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