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Re: Override changes standard -> optional

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34:35PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:

> after some discussion within the ftpteam we just modified a few override
> entries (15 to be exact). The following packages moved from standard to
> optional:

> In case you see a good reason why the above is wrong, feel free to reply
> stating it. We currently can't see any of the packages living up to the
> policy definition of standard.

Is there any rationale from these internal discussions about why these tools
have been demoted?  It's hard to refute an argument that hasn't been

The policy definition of 'standard' is:

          These packages provide a reasonably small but not too limited
          character-mode system.  This is what will be installed by default
          if the user doesn't select anything else.  It doesn't include
          many large applications.

It's difficult to see how any of these packages fail the *definition* of

> strace
> mtr-tiny

I think these are useful troubleshooting tools that we ought to install by
default.  mtr-tiny is the only traceroute tool included in standard

For comparison, both of these packages are part of the Ubuntu standard

I think we ought to even consider adding gdb in addition to strace, size
allowing, since these two tools are rather complementary in their use; but
certainly, I'd prefer having strace over not having either.

> sharutils

sharutils certainly seems much less useful/used now than in the past, I
don't think it's likely that anyone will miss it.

> tcsh

tcsh is still a commonly used login shell in some environments.  I don't
know how important it is to have it as part of the standard system since I
don't like it myself, but I can see an argument being made that it should
actually be Priority: important - so standard might actually be a good

> selinux-policy-default

I think this needs to be at Priority: standard as a necessary step in
SELinux bootstrapping, but I realize this is contentious.

> mtools

Another tool with diminishing utility, as floppies become increasingly
scarce; I think it's reasonable to get rid of this.

> finger

It's been a while since I've seen a useful finger server, I think it's fine
to drop this too.

> libustr-1.0-1
> libsemanage1
> libdb4.7
> python-semanage
> python-selinux
> policycoreutils
> python-support
> python-newt

These are all pulled in as dependencies only, and are self-evidently ok to
demote if they no longer have any other reverse-deps at Priority: standard.

> For the time right after the release we also intend to move ispell,
> iamerican, ibritish, wamerian and dictionaries-common down.

Why?  I don't think that's justified at all.

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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