Re: The problem with killfiles, and other musings [Was: Re: removal of svenl from the project]
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:24:23AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:28:14PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I was going to make a large answer where i was going to denouse the
> > inexactitudes and false claims of this clearly inflamatory mail, but i will
> > refrain from doing so.
> > I wonder if Steve, and others of the 'esteemed' DDs, is following his own
> > advice, and rereading the mails he writes, and if so, why did he need to add
> > such a great amount of ad-hominem attacks again, and what was the added value
> > it did bring to his point.
> "So Sven is going to continue to be used here as an illustrative example,
> not because I want to pick on Sven, but because I want to demonstrate the
> plausibility of the problem I'm talking about."
I believe that you could have made the selfsame point without expressing that
list. It may be hidden in good intentions, but it stays a list of things
reproached to me, some of them being true, but others being false. Further
more, if i replied to them, i would be seen as falling again in the same thing
i was almost expelled for.
So, even if your claim above was right, it was an unfortunate way to say it
given the context, and you mail would have been perfectly valid without it.
> This was *not about you*. I was not expressing support for expelling you
> from the project, I was addressing the fallacious claim that killfiling
> people we don't get along with is a fix for conflict. I'm sorry if you felt
> attacked by my mail, but not only was it not ad-hominem (since you were not
It had my name, had it not. You prefaced it by a "its not about sven", but it
was still a list of those accusations, some of them false.
> > There are others in the project people have a difficult time working with,
> > including some of the respected and eminent guys, but nobody would dare
> > expulse them for it, or even critic.
> We weren't talking about expulsions or criticism, we were talking about
> killfiling. I guess I could use myself as an example here instead of you,
That would have been welcome in this context.
> And aren't your follow-ups here a perfect example of why people complain
> about you personalizing all discussions?
Sorry, but you had 10+ line paragraph attacking me, some of which not being
true, and even if you had those three lines telling it was not about me, i
think it was misfortunate, like turning the knife in the wound.
I mean, it is like saying : its not about you, and then following up with a
huge list of insults, it will have the same effect on the guy you are using as