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Re: buildd administration

On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 06:45:09PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote:

> >> http://bugs.debian.org/342548
> >> Why hasn't that been done before?  Where else should this be documented? 
> > Well, Steve wrote lately about the $arch@b.d.o mails:
> > "AIUI, the <arch>@buildd.debian.org addresses have a ridiculously low S:N
> > ratio due to spam; 
> This is a problem, but IMO not a justification for simply saying: No, we
> don't provide any contact address.

Sure, there's always something that is not as well documented as it should
be... ;)

> > moreover, they already receive build logs for each failed
> > package build, and are generally quite capable of figuring out the source of
> > a failure on their own, so receiving a second mail about a failure that's
> > still in their inbox isn't necessarily all that useful."
> That's a problem either of educating the people that want to contact
> buildd admin's (to only do it when necessary), or of having enough
> persons behind that role account $arch@b.d.o.  Remember that we all
> receive superfluos mails as maintainers, like "Hey, I also found out
> that your package cannot be installed, and I'm the 3rd one of them who
> doesn't check whether a bug has already been filed".  I assume if
> appropriate information is available, people caring about buildd
> failures are more likely to understand when it's time to contact the
> buildd admin, then random users when to report a bug.

That's one part I try to achieve with buildd.net: to give as much
information as possible about the buildd process. The main focus is the
buildd itself: is it down, when will be "my" package built, etc... 
When you do a package search on buildd.net there are some links to other
sites to give you easy access to even more information. 
If someone writes a nice paper about buildds, common problems or such (or
sends me a pointer to such things), I'll happily include that on buildd.net. 
> Moreover, even if the admins are capable to figure out problems on their
> own, the maintainer and porters also deserve information.  It's
> demotivating to not get any response when you ask for help a couple of
> times, try to reproduce the error in your environment without success,
> and not even be notified how the problem has finally been solved by the
> buildd admin.

True. There is much space for improvements on both sides.

> >> > Another possible resource might be http://www.buildd.net/ </adv> ;) - I try
> >> > to keep the information there as uptodate as possible, but it depends on the
> >> > will to cowork with the buildd admins/porters, too. 
> >> Ah, that's even better, there's actual names behind the buildd's.  I'll
> >> add that to the patch.
> > OTOH, some people seem to disagree with you: 
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=265142
> I don't understand - this was about adding a link to buildd net to
> developer.php, I'm talking about documenting buildd admin's contact
> addresses in intro/organization.  

Well, I was aiming towards the point that some persons might dislike me and
therefore refuse to add links to buildd.net. ;)

> > I think that people should choose theirselves what they think is the
> > best resource for them to find the needed information...  ;)
> I do think that too, but in order to allow that those resources must be
> made public.  I haven't found buildd.net useful for me in the past,

Feature requests and other things are always welcome! I can't know what you
want until you tell it to me. ;)

> either, but I didn't know that it's the only place to get the names and
> e-mail of buildd admin's.

I would be happy when I could get updates about buildds, buildd admins and
such from time to time. Information is only good when it is acurate and
uptodate. Take the machines.cgi on db.d.o for example. It is quite often
outdated, which is why I tried to work around that problem by using dynamic
status updates via a small scripts from the buildds. But that's a different
story. The point is: when someone knows the information on buildd.net is
wrong, please let me know!

>  The latter information should be available at
> some other place than buildd.net itself; maybe not only
> intro/organization, but also the developer's reference. 

After a talk with Christoph Berg, we agreed that I'll add (somewhen ;)
a new search page on buildd.net that will be linked on the developer.php

Ciao...                //        Fon: 0381-2744150 
      Ingo           \X/         SIP: 2744150@sipgate.de

gpg pubkey: http://www.juergensmann.de/ij/public_key.asc

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