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Re: Ignoring the truth or Hiding problems?

* Goswin von Brederlow 

| Do you consider buildd admin a role position? As a rule of thumb I
| would say role positions are those with role addresses,
| e.g. leader@debian.org.

Why is powerpc@buildd.debian.org different from leader@debian.org?
It's a role address -- it's whoever runs the powerpc buildd, whether
it be a team, a single person or a really good AI.

| And what if he dies tomorrow? Debian will be left with no DAM, no past
| DAM, noone that has the vaguest idea how to handle the
| job. (overstating to make a point).

That's bullshit.

James' laptop was stolen earlier this year, with a backup copy of his
gpg key on it (left there by oversight).  Getting his account closed
took a couple of hours, and I'm sure we could have gotten it done
faster if we _really_ needed to.  So we have at least one other person
who knows how to manage accounts (technically) in Debian.  For the
process part of DAM, we have the Front Desk who is intimately familiar
with how the DAM works and the requirements needed for passing.

| Limiting the time is as much a means to prevent people hogging the
| position as ensuring new people are trained and old people are
| available for help.

You seem to think that getting new people into positions and getting
old people out of a position is good by itself.  I don't think so.  I
think continuity is good and letting people do what they think is fun
is good.

| If, as you say, nobody want's to be DAM then there wouldn't be an
| election by those rules.

I did not say that.  I said nobody whom I could possibly want to have
as a DAM wouldn't want that position.  I know a fair amount of people
who (for some insane reason) wants to become DAM, but I'd like not to
have them in that position.  I'm not saying that this is true for a
majority of DDs, I'm not saying it's true for _any_ other DD, but it
is for me.

| I would not consider teams to be role positions but being a teams
| leader I would.

What about leaderless teams, like ftp-master or the amd64 porting
team?  (Still going by www.d.o/intro/organization)

| In a team there are other people that can take up the slack if a
| person is overly busy with other jobs. Also people can join the team
| and do the work instead of the timeless person and defacto replace him
| at any time. In a team one person does not constitue a bottleneck.

Having a team does not mean «everybody does everything», it might just
as well mean _nothing_ can be done if not a majority is present, since
people do different parts of the job.

| PS: Given the inflamatory nature of mentioning DAM in such a thread
| maybe a different role should be used as example in the future.

I think using DAM as an example might be good, since it's one of the
least thankful, most whined about and loneliest posts we have in
Debian.  I doubt the DAM gets many fan mails about he doing a good
job, even though some (many, lots, pick an appropriate word) people
think so.

Tollef Fog Heen                                                        ,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are      : :' :
                                                                      `. `' 

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