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Re: Web applications



hi pierre,

i'm going to take the step of cc'ing folks who might not be following
this thread but would probably be interested.  namely, the debian
maintainers for any "httpd" package[1], php, mysql,
and postgresql.

anyway, i think it's a good idea to distinguish the different areas
that we're trying to address like you have.  now, to add more to this
growing document...

On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 03:41:34PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> my english was horrible, wasn't it ?
> 
> well, I'll try to make a list of what should be unified (I'll use a lot of 
> Sean's list, but not only)
> 
> (1) DATABASE RELATED
> 
>  * whether/how to prompt for database usernames/passwords via debconf
>    (if necessary), and how not to store the root password.

we could make the package databasename/username/password prompt a low
priority question, and if the user skips those questions, they could be
created automatically with a format something like
$package/debian-$package/$randompw.

>  * having a list of available ressource (local or distant)

it wouldn't be too hard to do something like this.  get a list
of the installed db servers, previously entered remote servers
from the debconf cache, and finally provide "add a new remote server"

> (2) WEB SERVERS RELATED
> 
>  * how to get a list of different installed web servers, and how to
>    select which ones to target for installation.

again, i think a low priority debconf question would be appropriate.
the question on my mind is, should it default to (when lowest prompt priority
> low) not activating it for any sites, an arbitrary site, or activating
it for all sites?

>  * whether/how to include one's configuration with apache.  ideally
>    there'd be a conf.d style directory, though if the apache folks could
>    settle on a name for their config script calling that in postinst would
>    work too :)

>  * whether/how to restart the web server

and what the default action should be...

> (3) WEB APPS ADMIN RELATED
> 
>  * fhs-compliant layout for sites, examples of how to seperate the config
>    from the rest of the site.  what constitutes something that ought to be
>    in /var/cache, /var/lib, et c.

i don't think we'd have to go too much into this, since we already have
the fhs to point to, but a few reminders to package maintainers wouldn't
hurt.  for example, i upgraded a certain mail-graphing package which
stored some databases in /var/cache, and upon upgrading the package i
lost 3 months of unrecoverable accumulated data.

>  * find solution for themeable sites (we don't want the admin to create
>    custom files into /usr/share or to patch sites by hand !!!)

this really dips into the software design of the packages themselves,
unfortunately.  no reason not to include guidelines though.  for example,
i really like the way request-tracker does this[2], but other packages
provide different ways that i think are equally acceptable (like
providing the header/footers as config files, "theme" directories, et c).

> (4) WEB APPS PACKAGING RELATED (aka MISC ;p)
> 
>  * whether/how to prompt for whether to leave the database after purge
>    (or uploaded files, or any local ressource generated by the app)

again and what the default action should be.  i think we should get a
general clarification on what policy really says we should do, especially
given all the hoo-hah lately about logfiles being removed on purge.
also, what if the database is remote?  tricky...

>  * default settings, disallowing default username/passwords for
>    web-accessible services.
>  * have the possibility to install as a subdirectory of or as a pure vhost

there's no real way to have a clean and automagic vhost install, because
external changes in dns are usually involved.  i think what would be
the closest thing we could do would be to provide a sample configuration.

> (5) WEB SCRIPTING LANGAGES RELATED
> 
>  * php ought to have a php.d directory
>  * php PEAR packaging should have a policy

this has been brought up a few times in the past, and it was the
general consensus that there *should* be (similar to how debian
gracefully co-exists with CPAN), but i don't know that anything
further has been done.


	sean

[1] grep-available -F Provides -s Maintainer httpd | sed -e 's/[^:]*://' | \
    sort | uniq
[2] there's a mirrored directory structure in /usr/local, and if a
    corresponding file exists there it is given preference to the
    one in /usr/share.

-- 

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