On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:42:19PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst scribbled:
> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 03:26:22PM +0200, Marek Habersack wrote:
> > You say that I put the onus on the receiver. You're right to some extent.
> > But, call me naive, I believe in people (sometimes) helping each other when
> > the intent is clear and not harmful for anybody.
>
> By sending me a mail, asking me to prove that I'm not a spammer, you're
> wasting my time, bandwidth, diskspace, and CPU cycles. How is that not
> harmful? By sending out challenges, you're not better than any spammer
> out there just because you don't intend to sell me anything, or because
> your mail is "easily filtered". After all, there are more
> challenge/response systems out there than just tmda, and my filter file
> is long enough as it is that I don't want to add a gazillion rules for
> each and every one of them.
That's the attitude I'm writing about below. And I find no arguments to
counter that. I assume you're receiving tons of challenges from many systems
every day and you have every right to be annoyed about the fact. Let's end
the discussion, please, it doesn't lead anywhere.
> > By that token, I would
> > expect that you (or anyone else) who feels offended by the tmda challenges
> > comes up and says "hey, dude, are the challenges necessary? Is there
> > anything you can do so that I don't receive them?". Then the party
> > generating the challenge would come back saying "sure, here is a set of
> > procmail/maildrop/spamassassin/whatever filters that will make them
> > disappear from your mailbox. Thanks". Instead, what we get is "Hey dude! Get
> > the fuck lost with your spam! I don't care about your problems, get away,
> > I've got my problems you prick! You're a spamming asshole, loser!"
>
> As opposed to
>
> "Hey dude, I don't want to waste my time on all these silly spam
> messages. My spamfilter thinks you could possibly be a spammer, so you
> should shut up and prove you're not, and waste your time instead of mine
> in the process, or I won't talk to you, loser! Oh, and if you didn't
> send that mail, I don't care, go away!"
>
> ?
>
> Right. Got it.
And your point is? I already know you're not a person one can cooperate
with. You have your strong points and beliefs and you're not going to change
them no matter what. This is so characteristic to a certain part of the free
software community, alas.
> > or something in that spirit. Now, that's a true cooperation spirit.
>
> Oh, absolutely.
>
> > I can imagine cooperating with the Debian tmda maintainer to provide
> > the procmail, maildrop, spamassassin filters to deal with the tmda
> > challenges, so that they are shipped with debian and people are
> > educated about the need for them
>
> There is none. When I get one of those challenges, they're dropped in my
> =.spam.missed, where a cronjob picks them up and feeds them to sa-learn.
> Works wonderfully.
Ok, you're right, I'm wrong. You won. Now, let's end it here, it's a waste
of time. Feel free to blacklist grendel@debian.org and
grendel@caudium.{net,org} so that you don't happen to hit by my tmda in the
future, it might be harmful for your health.
take care,
marek
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature