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Re: web browser bookmark defaults

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 04:19:00PM -0800, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> Richard Braakman wrote:

> > I don't think the purpose of such bookmarks should be "advertisement".
> agreed
> > They're there to be useful and helpful for the user, and I don't think
>                                                  ^^^^
> > that these links qualify as that, on a Debian system.
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> are you saying that no user of a Debian system uses RedHat or Slackware?

No, I'm saying they should be useful and helpful for "the user", in the
context in which they are presented: a specific browser running on a
Debian system.  Links that are about that browser or that system are
helpful for all such users.  Links about related parts of the system
(desktop environment, linux kernel) are also likely to be helpful.

If you're going to lower the requirement to "might be helpful for some
users", then there's no real argument left against including _any_
link.  "Are you saying that no user of a Debian system gets news
from CNN?"  "Are you saying that no user of a Debian system buys
things on eBay?"

I think it's important to keep the bookmark clutter to a minimum.
At least, it always annoys me to have to clear out the junk when
I start a fresh account.  It's supposed to be a list of MY bookmarks.

A user who uses multiple systems is likely to find the Red Hat links
more helpful when using a Red Hat system, and Debian links more helpful
when using a Debian system.  I see no reason to clutter the screen with
such links, just for the occasional user who uses one system to
administrate another.

> i will lose no sleep if the bookmarks are not in there (_i_ don't use red
> hat nor slackware), but to heavy handedly say ``No Debian users would
> benefit'' is a bit over the top.

What a good thing that I'm not saying that, then.

> we are not talking about _adding_ bookmarks, we are talking about
> _removing_, for a non-technical reason, which is a form of censorship.
> i'm against _that_ idea, especially since leaving them in _causes us no
> damage_ (IMHO of course).

*sigh* It's a bit early to play the censorship card, you know.  You're
supposed to wait until I've called you a Nazi and someone else has 
invoked the Social Contract ("Our Priorities are Our Users and Free

We're not _removing_ anything, we're providing an integrated system.
Upstream sources aren't usually configured just right for use on a
Debian system, so we have to tune them when packaging them, and
this means making lots of small decisions and changes, such as:
  - Deciding what should be in the installed documentation
    (how-to-compile-and-install information is just clutter)
  - What should be in the menus (there's no point in listing
    programs that are not installed)
  - What should be described in manpages (pathnames should
    say where files _actually_ are, not just where to start
    looking for them)
and a hundred other little things.  Deciding what links would be useful
in a default bookmarks list is clearly in that scope.

Richard Braakman

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