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Re: Discussion - non-free software removal

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 09:44:23AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> oh great, another round of the non-free jihad.

Oh great, another round of red herring attacks.

I'm glad that you find it so difficult to disagree with what I say that you
instead choose to attack that which I have not said.

> what exactly does this gain for debian and debian users, apart from a
> fascist enforcement of YOUR ideological preferences?

Let me first turn that around and ask you: what does it harm Debian and
Debian users?  Is it that hard to change a few characters in sources.list?

This gains us several things.  First, we will be able to rid ourselves of
the confusion that so many users, and in fact developers such as yourself,
manifest about just what is Debian and what is not.  How can the Debian
distribution be harmed by removing something that was never a part of it in
the first place?  By maintaining this archive, we lend a false sense of
"free software legitimacy" to the programs contained therein, to the
detriment both of the hapless users of that software and to our stated goal
of producing a Free operating system.

More important is the very first statement in our Social Contract: "Debian
Will Remain 100% Free Software".  I want you and everyone else to understand
that there are only two possible correct stances regarding clause 1 of the
Social Contract:

1. That Debian does not contain, nor has it ever contained, non-free
software; or:

2. That Debian has been in material breach of its own Social Contract for

I maintain that #1 is the correct answer.  Given that, how exactly are we
harming our users again?

Perhaps you believe that #2 is correct.  Given that, don't you think we
should fix the situation?

> the fact that you find it offensive that some people need, like, or want
> to install and run non-free software is not sufficient reason to
> diminish utility for debian users.

I did not state that I find that offensive.

I did not state that I want to diminish utility for Debian users.

I did not state that I wish to prevent people from installing and running
non-free software, nor to make that more difficult.

> you're just going to have to accept the fact that other people have
> different beliefs to you, and that debian accomodates those people.

I did not suggest that Debian should cease to accomodate those people.

I merely suggested that the accomodation should be done in a better way.

> in short, enforce your ideology as sternly as you want on your own
> systems but keep your interfering hands out of other people's systems.

You have yet to show me any material harm that would arise to anyone out of
the passage of the GR.

-- John

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