Re: Helix debian packages
On Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 04:13:43PM -0400, James LewisMoss wrote:
> >> The only differences I see between helix and debian gnome are
> >> 1) The little bootup dialog has a different image
> >> 2) The image in the menu bar is a flower rather than the helix
> >> loki-like guy.
>
> Joseph> They also have better default configurations, more stuff
>
> OK. Got an example?
Yes, the Helix default GTK settings are usable by me. They use a darker
grey and it doesn't give me a nasty headache like Debian's do. Granted,
that's a very minor thing, but it's a difference.
Generally, the default gnome-session under Helix is just better. Perhaps
that's subjective, but a lot of people seem to agree.
> Joseph> packaged, better package integration, and often they have
>
> let's see. They have bug-buddy, eog, evolution, helix sawfish themes,
> pspell-ispell, some extra gtk themes, and some extra sawfish themes.
And they have different and (IMO more complete) task packages to make sure
you get the things you want.
> Joseph> faster response times on bug fixes.
>
> And this is the "Peter is paid to do this" thing. Of course they are
> going to have faster bug fixes. That's life.
Exactly. More reason to take advantage of the faster bug fixes.
> Joseph> People are getting paid to do it - at least Peter is. What I
> Joseph> see is a massive duplication of effort. Helix is doing it
> Joseph> and making it available. With the exception of a couple of
>
> OK. So why shouldn't we use the debian packages? Debian people who
> have been packaging gnome for a while are doing it.
Why do you insist on a Debian vs. Helix scenerio? My point, which you
seem to be ignoring, is that there's no reason for there to be a
difference between Helix and Debian Gnome. As this discussion has shown,
those who have commented have largely either seen no differences worth
noting or feel that Helix Gnome has several small but important
improvements. A few notice that Helix has a few bugs which while minor,
need to be resolved.
It seems reasonable to fold the Helix changes into Debian. If time is the
problem, I am sure there are people willing to help. I'm willing to,
where time permits.
> Joseph> trademark images we're not sure of, the packages are free to
> Joseph> include in Debian. So why not set up a CVS repository and
> Joseph> have Debian and Helix people both working on the Debian
> Joseph> packages together? If there are indeed so few differences
> Joseph> (and I think there are more than you realize), this would be
> Joseph> trivial. Even if there are more differences, for the most
> Joseph> part the Helix packages have better integration, so I'd
> Joseph> suggest starting there.
>
> OK. With gnome-games, gnome-pim, gnome-utils I can say pretty
> surely. The differences are minimal. The rest I don't know about.
> Joseph> Of course, that's too simple and logical to be likely to
> Joseph> happen. Still, as someone who has had to try both of them,
>
> Gosh. Ya wanna know why it isn't happening? Because Peter (no
> offense to him here. His decision is perfectly normal and reasonable)
> didn't have time to get the helix packages into debian. If he had had
> time he'd be at least maintaining the ones I still maintain plus a few
> others.
>
> Now. Since you seem to have more than enough time to complain about
> something you should have more than enough time to set up the
> wonderful cvs repository you speak of above. Let me know when you get
> done.
I haven't got a good place to host the CVS, but I'm willing to help set it
up if that's what's needed. It's not hard, but it won't work unless the
Debian Gnome maintainers want it to work. Based on a lot of what I'm
reading, I suspect John Goerzen has a better chance of convincing people
non-free should be purged from Debian than I've got of convincing the
people packaging Gnome in Debian that Helix changes should be folded in to
the Debian packages.
> Joseph> I'd rather stick with Helix. The minor packaging bugs are
>
> So when was the last time you tried the debian packages?
I use them at work. At home, I use Helix. As soon as I installed Debian
Gnome at work, an old and fixed bug in the file dialog in XMMS reappeared,
that was the very first thing I noticed different. Minor, but annoying
enough that the first time I enqueued a file, I wished I had the Helix
version installed.
--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@debian.org> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3
[regarding measures to prevent cheating in quake]
I mean, as long as I can make my rocket launcher look like a big twinkie,
I'll be happy ;)
-- Qeyser <keyser@jhu.edu>
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