Re: Packages removed from frozen
>>"David" == David Starner <dvdeug@x8b4e53cd.dhcp.okstate.edu> writes:
>> I have, however,
>> amended my stance about restricting it to build depends (not that
>> there was any attempt at dialogue -- people muist reaaaaly like flame
>> fests here).
David> You started out by saying we should remove any bootstrapping packages.*
David> As someone who uses GNAT and SML extensively, such a threat is rather
David> disturbing.
Threat? Oh, grow up, and stop dramatizing. This is a
discussion; I cane on strong in the belief that circulatory build
dependes should be deprecated, and and they should be allowed only in
the rarest cases.
I still hold that.
Instead of talking rationally about packages where this would
be difficult, why do you chose to jump in with a chip on your
shoulder?
David> * "Programs need dispension" && "dispension will only be given for
David> build-essentials" => "programs not in build-essentials will be be
David> removed"
Only in a juvenole, black and white world. Out here, we try
and mould opinions and attempt a consesnus; and we would get more
done had you pointed out that more packages would require the
dispensation than would fit the build depends category. As it is, you
have taken the argument to the extreme, which is not very condusive
to a dialogue.
Has this list already deteriorated to the extent that all real
work must be taken off it?
David> You didn't mention documentation in the original. You said they
David> shouldn't be in Debian. Or is English not your first language?
Of curse it is not, but I suspect that my command of the
language fares better than most native speakers that I know. What
value is the dispensation unless it is recorded? Instead of nit
picking at an inchoate idea, you would have been better served trying
to moult it, and to remove deficiencies.
However, let it devoilve to a pissing contest if it must.
David> No one's opposed to documenting these packages, but it doesn't
David> really matter to most of us.
>>
>> That has been eminently clear. However, I suggest that the
>> project give two hoots about security.
David> How about the fact that you download binary packages all the
David> time,
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Did I ever
say that my setup was supposed to besecure? Are are you so narrow
minded that you only discuss mechanisms that are useful to your
own personal machine?
Just like the MBR behaviour needed documentation, so does
this.
David> without any proof that it's not a trojan? It would be so
David> simple to build your binary upload from a source you weren't
David> planning to upload. Why should I trust Joe Random Debian
David> Developer over Ada Core Technologies or Lucent Technologies?
Depends on your requirements. I can see some cases where you
need audit evreything you use. Again, what the hell has this got to
do with anything?
David> Not to offend any developers, but you're the paranoid security
David> person. Why doesn't this passionately worry you?
(Sigh*. In certain cases, it would. Security is never an
absolute -- there is always a trade off. So the default is to include
the packages in Debian -- and to distribute binaries,
Anda also to document thngs to make it easy for a secure
environment to use Debian.
Please note: I need not bre running a secure environment to
cater to the needs of one.
manoj
--
Climbing onto a bar stool, a piece of string asked for a beer. "Wait
a minute. Aren't you a string?" "Well, yes, I am." "Sorry. We don't
serve strings here." The determined string left the bar and stopped a
passer-by. "Excuse, me," it said, "would you shred my ends and tie
me up like a pretzel?" The passer-by obliged, and the string
re-entered the bar. "May I have a beer, please?" it asked the
bartender. The barkeep set a beer in front of the string, then
suddenly stopped. "Hey, aren't you the string I just threw out of
here?" "No, I'm a frayed knot."
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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