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Re: calling Philip Hands <phil@hands.com>

On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 09:27:15AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> using DUL has nothing to do with "ghettos" - it is entirely to do with
> the undisputable fact that almost all spam comes directly from dialup IP
> addresses, sent from throw-away dialup accounts.

I do not relay.  My ISP runs NT on its mail server.  I want my mail
delivered and unmangled.  I would be greatly offended if my email started
getting rejected simply because I don't have a relay set up (especially
given that I'm running a Linux workstation here and don't NEED a relay to
get my mail safely to where it belongs.)

> it is oafish of you to attack paul vixie for providing a free and very
> useful service which many people voluntarily choose to use because it
> has demonstrated it's worth in reducing spam.
> as far as the DUL blocks go, they are becoming the only thing around
> which *can* block spam. using open relays is going out of fashion
> amongst spammers (partly because it's becoming illegal to steal computer
> resources like that in most parts of the world, but mostly due to the
> efforts of MAPS and ORBS)....what this means is that spammers now use
> dialup accounts to send spam directly to their victims.

A demonstration that filtering mail based on IP is a Bad Plan.  The
spammers have adapted to it.  So you want to filter more IPs.

> spammers won't use their ISP's mail relay because that will get their
> account nuked very quickly.
> legitimate, non-spamming users can still get their mail out by using
> their ISP's mail relay. blocking direct mail from dialup IP addresses
> is a GOOD THING, with insignificant side-effects. it blocks spam very
> effectively (DUL is way more effective than other RBLs), and it also
> serves to put responsibility for spammers back onto the ISPs who sell
> them accounts.

Not a chance in the abyss I will route my mail through my ISP.  Not even
a chance.  Their mail server has already demonstrated its stability.

> in summary: if you don't like it, then tough luck - no one is under any
> obligation to receive your mail. if you want to communicate with people,
> it's up to you to do so in an acceptable manner.

If I could count how many times the recipient of an email has ASKED for
me to write to them and their ISP has returned it due to their ISP's IP
filters ....

Let me be the many likely to tell you where you can place your
"acceptable manner"...  Provide me a useful mail relay and I might
consider using it.  Maybe.  Otherwise you haven't a leg to stand on as
far as I'm concerned because I do NOT have a useful mail relay unless I'm
it.  And yes, I have a dialup account.  So what?

Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@debian.org>            Debian GNU/Linux developer
PGP: E8D68481E3A8BB77 8EE22996C9445FBE            The Source Comes First!
<apt> it has been said that redhat is the thing Marc Ewing wears on
      his head.

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