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Re: Old-timer installer, task-sysvinit?

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:36:42PM +0000, Philip Hands wrote:
> Ah, oh well then.
> If one starts preseeding many of the internal bits of d-i, one can do
> pretty much anything you like (and loads of things you don't like ;-) ).
> If you're worried about recomending such things, I'd say that the way to
> go is with a standard install, and then using some nice package manager
> interface to change the init system.
> If you want a way to do a non-shell based preseed, you _may_ be able to
> get away with some combination of these:
> =-=-=-=-
> Template: base-installer/includes
> Type: string
> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>  Packages to be included in base installation
> Template: base-installer/excludes
> Type: string
> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>  Packages to be excluded in base installation
> Template: pkgsel/include
> Type: string
> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>  Comma/space-separated list of extra packages to install
> =-=-=-=-
> Although you'd need to test that (I seem to remember them not doing
> quite what I'd expected when I tried using them a long time ago, at
> least when it came to excludes, so I've not touched them since).
> TBH, given that one of the apparent selling features of sysvinit is how
> nice it is to be able to do whatever one likes with a few lines of
> shell, it strikes me as a bit odd to be shy of using a single shell
> command to get what one wants.  Who is the target audience here?

I think a big problem is that it isn't clear what command is necessary
to replace systemd with something else.  I just tried searching for
isntructions on installing jessie without systemd, figuring it must
be documented somewhere.  Well if it is, google is no help.  I found
various interesting ideas, some clearly not very good.  I did find
stuff on how to upgrade from wheezy to jessie and avoid systemd, but
that hardly takes care of new installations.

I know I have only used Debian since version 2.0, so I have never used
preseed, nor even seen a preseed file.  I doubt I am unusual.
The installer has always asked the right questions and done the right

Perhaps it is time someone who actually knows how to make it do the
right thing to document it officially.

Maybe rather than telling people it is too late to do something, throw
away the freeze, fix things, then freeze again.  What's the rush for a
new release anyhow?  Clearly a lot of people are not happy with the
current state of things.

Len Sorensen

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