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Re: Debian Dictionaries - last try [trans] [site]

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Am 14.08.2005 um 09:39 schrieb Clytie Siddall:

On 13/08/2005, at 9:44 PM, Jutta Wrage wrote (in part):

Possible solutions:

1. Someone cares personally and contacts me about how things can be done

Personally and writes to you both directly and here, if that's OK.

I certainly want to help if I can. I think the dicts are a very useful resource, and I'm keen to link them in with other projects for my language in which I am involved, about which we have talked.

Is there anything I can do to help, Jutta? Apart from keeping my translation updated? I'm rather interested in adding terms to the dicts, if you think that would be useful, or adding external links to additional information. I think svaksha would be interested in adding her very scarce languages to the dicts, once we get her input problems sorted out. Hajni could well be interested, if she can find the time, to add Hungarian, wihch would be great. We most likely have other translators on the list who may have time to contribute: it would be terrific if they did. :)

I looked on the D-W page for the dicts today, and it didn't have Hungarian (or Marathi or Sanskrit), but it didn't have Vietnamese either, so maybe it's not quite up-to-date. So I ask. :)

That is the problem...

The dict pages a created by a program out of the word lists. I used to run the program, which is still in development locally here, look, if the result goes fine and then synced the results to my homepage and debian-women website. That worked fine so far.

But then I got comment that that does not fit to the rest of the site (the time, when debian-women went into baz archive, which was not accessible by me (I ran woody and most of my stuff still is on the woody system right now and there is and was not baz for woody).

Here only one of the comments I got, those in #debian-women have been quite sharper:

It does make it difficult for anyone else in DW to
change anything since the dicts are _completely_ non-standard compared to the rest of the website. Fixing this (since I do consider it a problem) would
be a good thing, not a bad thing.

I would prefer them to be managed the same way the rest of the website is managed. I don't think it's a good idea to have one section of the website
-- besides the wiki, which is something different completely -- be
untouchable by other contributors. Accessibility, etc.

After some time I was tired of comments like "do not fit" and CSS being not any longer accessible for the created files as the css files moved from one place to the other. Seemed those working with the baz archive and making changes to the file hierarchy layout did not feel any need to announce changes to the others.

The problem that time was, it was not possible to run the program on alioth, because it needed things not in woody (and alioth was woody until end of July 2005). Okay, whith the help of the alioth admins I got everything running on alioth, so that others (which means those having access and _not_ those contributing to the dict content before) can make changes to the dict source files.

After that there was the following situation:

- - A local installation here (on my machine) and me working on the program and collecting entries for the dicts from time to time. Entries where send to me by mail or using the web form on www.witch.westfalen.de. - - And independent installation on alioth, where the debian-.womenb website is located.

The dicts are still not in the baz archive and nobody did changes to the files on alioth after I have announced the installation. Even the program was not run, so that, if there were changes to the source files, they would not have resulted in new dicts. On the other hand: If someone had added a new language or words beginning with letters not being sorted correctly, the program would have crashed and the dicts not created.

Here I am testing every new language and make changes to the program every time, I discover a problem with new words or language. It would be no problem to sync results as done until march. But that was not wanted. On the other side I do not have the time, to look, if there have been made any local changes on alioth and try to merge, if there have been changes on every time I got new entries.

a) Assumming everythings remains as it is, the following work would needed to be done.

- - Run the makdictutf8.pl on alioth
- - Remove dict entries from source files there, if there are errors on build time and rerun
- - Make bug reports for makdictutf8
- - Install new version onf makdict
- - Update the source files, if I send new files or updates (that will be tested already).

The program source an validated source files are available from my svn at https://simon.bofh.ms/ddict/ there is also a track installation at https://simon.bofh.ms/cgi-bin/trac-ddict.cgi. Not all is ready yet.

- - The program is in /trunk/src/
- - the dict source files are in /trunk/debian/source/

The files there can be diffed against those on alioth and the files patches in baz archive, if wanted. After updating the files, you have to install them on alioth and run the makedict shell script in bin. It will create a lastrun log and make an entry in the main log with the time, it was run.

In addition the main configuration file in the source directory has to be changed, if the directory structure on alioth is changes and foot and head, if the pages on alioth have changes there (menu eg).

b) As there had been a much easier way to do things, I will just mention that here:

1. Updates for source files go to me (the dict address, which could be additional persons) 2. If the page head, foot or css have changes, a notice or a bug report could be send 3. I test the entries, add new languages and adjust the program and update the files on alioth directly, if everything is tested and fine.

In this case only collecting entries and send notices about changes according to 2. would have to be done by others in d-w. But currently I am not willing to revert to that (as it worked fine until march), if not a majority of d-w decides to to so. I am not willing to get ugly comments on the dicts not fitting again. and also I am not willing to get comments about the dicts looking ugly because someone moved the css to another name or place or made changes affecting the dicts while that one making the changes, did not test the changes and send a notice to all.

D-W community or better those shouting loudest decided to go kind of way a) and not b). For me on the other side, I do not want, that it looks like if I just am not caring the dicts any longer. I did not make the decision.

The problem with a) is on the other side, that again (third time) the dict program will not run on alioth as I have to move to python for libs doing the correct alphabetical order and not being available for perl. This results in installing one or two packages not in Debian stable. But these libs will make it unnecessary to make program changes for single word beginnings or new languages.

For sure, there is a not mentioned alternative c): collecting words and create the pages and links by hand and not by makedictutf8. But that will result in much more work than everything else. Wo does not believe that could try to add only one new entry in the Acronym dictionary, add the translations for the meaning and try to make all the changes needed to add it (links, creating md5 hashes, updating the pages, create new dict indexes...

BTW: There are already _two_ new languages, which are still not on alioth: Vietnamese and Lithauian.

One word about Accessibility: Accessibility means to have access. Access for everyone. The dict files have been accessible for everyone all the time. They never stayed hidden on my computer. If not so, how could someone have looked into the souce files and send files for a new language which was uplodaed to a public place for review on the same day - including alle generated files? All the files are accessible with any browser. Accessibility does not mean, people may change files on any server directly without caring about the results. The baz archive beside that does not mean accessible by "all the contributors", if you include me and otheres who contributed to the dicts.

Contributors for the dicts are beside people from Debian-Women other people, too. Many thanks here to _all_ contributors and those reviewing the pages.



- -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de

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