Le samedi 27 mars 2021 à 10:41:57+0100, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit : > Quoting Enrico Zini (2021-03-27 10:08:06) > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 02:31:28PM -0700, Luke W Faraone wrote: > > > > > Myself, I signed this letter based on both public information and > > > the numerous times I've heard, unprompted, stories from women and > > > female-presenting people who have had uncomfortable / creepy > > > experiences with Stallman, in the Debian / free software community, > > > the MIT community, and elsewhere. > > > > > > I have heard first-hand stories from women who were new to the Free > > > Software movement and, at a conference, were excited to meet its > > > leader -- only to be hit on by Richard and invited back to continue > > > the conversation at a residence. These people did not stay in the > > > Free Software movement, and our community is poorer for it. > > > > > > None of those incidents would have turned into a police report, and > > > I'm not demanding that you rely on it. But it comes up so frequently > > > at conferences, student clubs, and bar chats from so many different > > > people that I have little reason to doubt its veracity. > > > > > > It's also interesting to note that over 12 former FSF staff, who > > > worked directly with Richard, also saw it fit to sign the letter. > > > > This! Thank you! > > > > I have regularly been among people sharing horror stories of what > > happened when they hosted RMS at some event or another. > > > > In my experience there is an unwritten, alternative "RMS Rider", that > > you should know before hosting/handling him, with things like "don't > > you *ever* leave RMS alone with a woman!", "avoid mentioning this list > > of words", "a number of basic expectations of human decency don't > > apply, and you should be prepared for that". > > > > As long as he was in a somewhat official position of guru/leadership, > > I was part of a community that tried its best to *handle* him, and to > > *minimize his damage*. I understand that many people close to him > > tried to talk to him, and that Stallman is about as famous for > > speaking as for not listening. I believe that all this has held Free > > Software back significantly. > > > > We had finally moved on from having a significant amount of the > > community energy spent on *handling Stallman*. And now he's supposed > > to be back "and I'm not planning to resign a second time"? > > > > Stallman can certainly *speak* about Free Software. Stallman cannot > > *lead* the Free Software movement, or any influential part of it. We > > had moved on, and we had mostly gotten away with it[1]. I don't want > > to go back. > > Thanks for your judgements(!), Luke and Enrico. > > For the record, I do not defend actions of RMS. I defend his right to a > fair trial. > > This mailinglist is for dicussing what to put on a ballot. > > I need no further testimonies or evicence that RMS is a monster. > Regardless of the amount and type of proof, Debian should in my opinion > *not* take part in group shaming. And *that* is relevant to discuss on > this mailinglist: What to put on the ballot for the Debian vote. > > The originally proposed text says that RMS has demonstrated that he is > what he is being accused of being. That is a way of turning allegations > into facts - i.e. *judging* - and I worry for Debian officially stating > that the allegations are facts is going too far, and that it is unneded > if what we want is to distance ourselves from a monster. > > Only if we want to punish the monster is it relevant to explicitly judge > the monster. > > It is my understanding that it is illegal for organisations to make such > explicit judgements, which is a reason for us to avoid explicit > judgement, even if that is in fact what we want to do. A fair trial is what you expect from the society when your actions are put under the justice system. Here as a group of people, his trial is mostly what he said publicly and never apologised for. I don't really see why you'd like him to get any sort of """trial""" when he had plenty opportunities to prove himself to have become better. Regards, -- Pierre-Elliott Bécue GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528 F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2 It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
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