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Re: Re-Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems

Hi Ansgar,

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 08:26:21PM +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> > I think that if necessary we might have to delay the release.  That
> > would be a matter for the release team.  I would be very unhappy if we
> > ditched the ability of people to choose a different init system simply
> > to maintain our release schedule.
> Hurray, what a great idea to delay everything *now*.
> And all because some people believe in conspiracy theories about Red
> Hat...

Nope - My feeling is that we are rushing systemd as fast as possible pushed
for example by the Gnome ecosystem and every warning voice is beeing shut
by "we need feature X because Y". We/I have lived with the "inadequate" init system
for 30 years so why are some people pushing _so hard_ to replace it NOW and by something
as controversal as the systemd stuff.

The arguments to replace the init system were dishonest (We need dependency booting
because booting is slow) in the beginning, and the arguments got replaced with complete
different feature argumentation now.

And controversy with systemd even grew more over time since the TCs decision because
of the amount of other software projects or functionality systemd maintainers decided
to swallow - its not an init system anymore.

Now - after a comparable short time we are already in the position that degradation
of the OSes capabilities when not using systemd is beeing acceptable to the some/most/all?
of our developers.

Is this acceptable to our users? The major systemd proponents dont care. Debian as
an institution should care:

	"We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community."

We already got to the "point of no return" with systemd - and THIS is something
i guess is not something our users asked for, and something the TC did not foresee.

If not now - when do people think we can stop and hopefully revert this trend? 

Florian Lohoff                                                 f@zz.de

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