Re: Standardization, large scale changes, innovations

[Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@ieee.org>]

On Wed, Mar 31 2010, Josselin Mouette wrote:

> Le mercredi 31 mars 2010 à 05:03 -0700, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
>>         I just update code in one place, test it, and then run a script
>>  that does a git pull for all my packages. The next time I build the
>>  package, it will pull in the change.
>
> Which is what I already explained in other terms:
>
>         Your packages are absolutely impossible to maintain by anyone
>         but yourself.

        I am not sure that follows. I think that if you want to maintain
 my packages you need to actually be comfortable with shell scripting
 and make. There is documentation lying around
 (./debian/common/README, debian/common/targets.dot). 

        For normal NMU's and all, all the NMUerr does see is:
	create_md5sum
 which seems fairly self explanatory. At least as clear as dh_md5sum. 


>> > This doesn’t raise questions about the competence of the newcomer. This
>> > raises questions about the competence of the person who designed the
>> > package.
>> 
>>         I am happy you have an opinion. I don't think much of it, but
>>  you are indeed entitled to it.
>
> I wouldn’t expect you to be able to question your own choices anyway.

        I personally think that would apply to present company as well.

> Actually, I shouldn’t be discussing this with you, this is pointless as
> always.

        I truly appreciate that.


On Wed, Mar 31 2010, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 31 2010, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> However a newcomer not aware of your fanatic rejection of any kind of
>> standard tools would absolutely not understand what this is about. And
>> the same goes about everything else in the package.
>
> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>>         I just update code in one place, test it, and then run a script
>>  that does a git pull for all my packages. The next time I build the
>>  package, it will pull in the change.
>
> So you are indeed using package helpers. Those are "just" yours and not 
> anyone else's…

        I am using a build system that comes with the package
 source. You may label it a "helper" if you so desire.

>
>> Personally, I find a small shell snippet to be clearer than a
>> reference to a external program, and when finding myself stuck in RHEL-
>> land, my packages build, and would have caused more pain were they
>> dependent on helper packages.
>
> Hmm… So a shell snippet is clearer than a manpage [debhelper's not a GUI…] ?

        Well, I find man pages are sometimes not to be trusted. I don't
 have debhelper around, so I can't say how clear the man page
 is. Knowing Joey, it is likely to be very clear. But for something as
 simple as this, I prfer  actually looking at the code to be executed,
 and this is likely to be more sumple than dh_md5sum, since I do not
 have to provide a UI.


> Are those helpers not installable/available on RHEL ? Maybe they should…

        They are certainly not available here. I have not looked into
 installing them,  to tell you the truth --- departure from the blessed
 image should be minimized, I thought, and it was not worth it for the
 few packages Ineeded. Did appreciate packages that build on non-debian
 bxes, at least until the build stage.

        manoj
-- 
"Ships don't come in, they're built." anon
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>  
4096R/C5779A1C E37E 5EC5 2A01 DA25 AD20  05B6 CF48 9438 C577 9A1C