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Re: A question to the Debian community...

On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:18:00PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Thursday 10 May 2007, Sven Luther wrote:
> > The procedure calls for the number of supporters being reached in 15
> > days between the original call or the procedure to be dismissed. The
> > original expulsion procedure started by Anthony Towns, was done on
> > January 2 or so, and should have been dismissed on January 16 or so,
> > because it didn't reach enough supporters.
> >
> > A third expulsion procedure should have been started on February 21 or
> > whatever it was, probably by Frans Pop or whoever retriggered the
> > expulsion procedure back then after i presented myself as DPL
> > candidate, and the DAMs should not have included the expulsion supports
> > of the original request of Andres Salomon, nor those of Anthony Towns,
> > and should have provided the full signed mails as evidence, and not
> > remove the dates, and refuse to communicate them despite many demands
> > for it, both by myself, and uninvolved bystanders.
> Complete nonsense. And this was explained in the mail from the DAMs on 
> d-private [1] that announced the decision. The procedure was put _on hold_ 
> from Jan 3 to Feb 7 after a telephone conversation from Ganneff to Sven, 
> partially in view of the self-imposed ban from the mailing lists.
> There was never anything like a "third" procedure and it certainly was 
> not "started" by me. 

Ok, Frans, this is a perfect occasion for you to give some explanation:

On February 7, someone, probably you, since you where cited by others
has having encouraged them to support the expulsion, retriggered the
expulsion procedure.

At that time, i was following my ban from the lists, and there could be
nothing to reproach to me, except of my decision to candidate as DPL,
which happened the day before this fatidic date.

Can you explain to me the reason for which this expulsion request was
restarted on february 7, i would be very very interested about it,
especially given Anthony Towns mail stating his surprise about why the
action was retrigered.

Furthermore, around newyear, you took the resolution to ignore anything
concerning me, and yet, you chose to ignore this, and actively pursue
the expulsion request, and recruit supporters for it.

How can you justify this, as a response to :

  An last a personal message to Frans, remember when we where in
  Extremadura, we had a good time, and we worked side by side. I
  seriously lament that it all degenerated like it did. I certainly have
  my part of responsability in this, but i passed though times, as you
  know. Let's put pride and arrogance and remembrance of past hurts
  aside, and let's again work on d-i all together, as it should be.

and :

  Sven Luther proposed a face-to-face meeting between him, Frans Pop and
  others involved in this issue, as well as outsiders who are interested
  in helping get this resolved smoothly, during FOSDEM 2007, which is
  over, and that both parties stop the hostilities until then.

I remember you, that at FOSDEM, you passed beside me, looking the other
way and not returning my greeting, that Holger, when i asked him how my
presentation was, and if i had managed to not be controversial about the
issue opposing us, told me that Debian would be better without me, and
that James Troup, on the day after the email about the expulsion
procedure was sent to me and got lost in the new debian greylisting,
didn't mention it in any way.

Frans, since the begining, you have never ever attempted to solve the
problem, you have never recognized that you may have some part of fault
in what happened, and you have often used your technical power to
further punish me, just becasue you where unwilling to try to solve the

> As someone who threatens others with court action for "lying" [2], I suggest 
> that you yourself start being a lot more careful about making false or 
> unsubstantiated claims and accusations.

Again, you are deforming what happened, in a (maybe not so) subtle
tentative to manipulate the opinion.

I have never told Holger that he lied, i have said that him saying that
i was lying, without giving proof of it, is called diffamation, and that
this is something punishable by RL law in many juridictions.

I have never lied in this matter, i may have been mistaked some times,
but honestly mistaken, and have apologized when shown my errors, which
is more than what you were able to do.

Yet, what i am faced here is a disgusting campaign of diffamation of the
worse sort, and especially Holger, has no lesson to give to me, in the
way he behaved in this matter.

So, i stand by it, Holger, and others like you, have gone onto a year
long camapign of maniuplation and diffamation over this year and more,
in which i fell and played into your hand, i agree, but what you have
done is something punisheable in real life courts.

> Disgusted and unfriendly,

I guess you can be disgusted each time you look at yourself in a mirror
and think about what you have done, unless your pride and arrogance
don't let you recognize it, naturally, which is the main reason why we
have this problem in the first place.

I have always been friendly to you, or tried to, except when your
behaviour forced me into outrage, but even then i regretted, and
apologized and tried to play nice. This cannot be said for you, nor
those around you like Holger.


Sven Luther

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