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Re: A question to the Debian community ... (Was: Question for Sam Hocevar "Gay Nigger Association of America")

On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 06:15:37PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 06:32:41PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 11:45:03PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 08:21:15AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > Well, i got suspended for a year, because i dared present myself as DPL,
> > > No, that's simply not true.
> > > You have delusions of grandeur.
> > 
> [..]
> > The decision was solely taken by the two DAMs, contrary to a 70:7
> > majority of opinion of DDs, while one of the points of my DPL plateform
> The expulsion procedure doesn't call for a vote, so your 70:7 statistic
> is irrelevant. The procedure calls for opinions only.

The procedure calls for the number of supporters being reached in 15
days between the original call or the procedure to be dismissed. The
original expulsion procedure started by Anthony Towns, was done on
January 2 or so, and should have been dismissed on January 16 or so,
because it didn't reach enough supporters.

A third expulsion procedure should have been started on February 21 or
whatever it was, probably by Frans Pop or whoever retriggered the
expulsion procedure back then after i presented myself as DPL
candidate, and the DAMs should not have included the expulsion supports
of the original request of Andres Salomon, nor those of Anthony Towns,
and should have provided the full signed mails as evidence, and not
remove the dates, and refuse to communicate them despite many demands
for it, both by myself, and uninvolved bystanders.

The current procedure is of the mafioso-politics kind, and it has been
speculated (not by me), that this may have been a maneuver by the DAMs
in order to further hurt the DPL re-candidature of Anthony Towns, which
himself protested the renewal of the procedure, and didn't understand
why his expulsion request was not dismissed on january 16 as per the

If this is like that, i find it extremely sick that anybody in debian
could chose to use me as they did, in order to further they own private

> The individual supporting emails aren't relevant. The DAMs are allowed
> to make a judgement call, which they did. The only appeal would be via GR.

The DAMs have dreamed up a procedure, and when i contested it after
Ted/Jonathan Walters heavy-handed expulsion, i was strongly discouraged
to pursue it. It is interesting to note, that the DAMs where long of the
opinion that they predated the constitution, and where not bound with
it, and this brings us down to the 'cabal' which believes they own
Debian, and can do what they want with it, without any though of human
decensy. This is of the same vein of James Troup telling about various
potential DDs 'me living, he will never be a DD'.

Also, about a GR, i have been suspended, so i lost all power to contest
this decision, do you find this fair ? Especially given all the
unclarities and manipulations and shameful behaviour that happened
during this time ? 

Since the begining this was a mess, and all i wanted was for this social
mess to be solved in a fair way, while the other side, supported by this
by the consent of the powers-that-be could accept nothing but a bloody

This is why debian is sick, why Debian is unable to solve its social
problems, and why we are having this discussion now.

So, this is an appeal to stop throwing stones at me, but to lock into
ourselves, and decide if we want this kind of behaviour to continue or
if we want to clear the shady dealing of the past, and change debian so
it will be able to deal with social conflicts in a sane and fair way, in
order for everyone to go back to hacking every after. I have made every
possible appertures in this way since over a year now, but i was always
meet with either sympathetic words but without action, or just
tentatives to silence me or punish me more, so you could go back to
happily ignoring the ignominy which was happening, while i suffered.

> Later, Sven wrote:
> > So, you too, believe that what was done to me was acceptable, that
> > everything is justifiable, so long as your precious mailbox is left
> > empty ? And well, the reality is that the expulsion request got
> The irony is that the one thing the DAMs *didn't* do is prevent you from
> posting to the mailing lists.

Yeah, right, it was a stupid decision, who was solely aimed at punishing
me more, and satisfying those who could accept nothing but a bloody
victory. Do you want to approve that, or will you revolt over such
behaviour and ask for a fair resolution of this social mess ? 

If you are sick of this recuring mess, please lobby the DPL to apoint a
social committee, who will be neutral and of good faith, and
sufficiently socially skilled to be able to reach a decision, and
sufficiently honourable to resist the tentative of manipulation which
have been happening in this (and probably many other) case. Or if the
DPL wishes not to move on this (he claimed that there are other more
important social problems, and i should just accept my punishment for
the time being), go for a GR to ask that the social committee be created
and given power to deal with situations like this, i will gladly stand
as an experiment in how to solve problems, but i doubt the other party
will ever accept to be judged by their acts in this without the backing
of the powerful and already pre-determined decisions.

Everything is in your hand, if you are sick of it, just look into your
concience, and act accordyingly.

> Please, give us some peace. Give yourself some peace. Go and find a new
> project where you can make a valued and appreciated contribution.

Right, again you favour expulsion, rejection and hate, instead of trying
to solve this internally in a way debian does not have to be ashamed of.

But i understand, it is hurting that i chose not to go away but remember
you all of the shame of what happened.


Sven Luther

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