Re: Proposal - Deferment of Changes from GR 2004-003
On Thu, 27 May 2004 07:36:38 -0400, Raul Miller <firstname.lastname@example.org> said:
> On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 09:02:33PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> The social contract currently reads:
>> 1 Debian will remain 100% free
>> system require the use of a non-free component.
>> So, such an ambiguity is not introduced by proposal F, it resides
>> in the social contract itself -- notice how the first promise is
>> that "Debian will remain 100% free", not the debian system?
> You left out four of the five sections of the Social Contract, and
> all but one of those sections use the word "free". Two of those
> sections draw a contrast between "free" and something else.
It was merely an example demonstrating that the SC also says
that "Debian" shall be free, not just the distribution. Just another
example showing that even the SC is written by mere mortals, and not
my lawyers; a certain context and judgement is required to
understand what we mean.
> Proposal F says " The Debian project resolves that it will not
> compromise on freedom". I see nothing here that limits that lack of
> compromise to section 1 of the social contract.
> It's certainly not the case that it's the social contract which
> introduces an ambiguity on whatever it is that we don't compromise
> on. You won't find "will not compromise" anywhere in the social
And there is nothing to tell us that the freedom we won't
compromise upon mentioned in proposal F is restricted to the freedoms
in the SC.
>> Arguably, the usage is that the former is shorthand for the latter,
>> but I tend to think we make statements (as in the social contract,
>> and in position statements) as statements -- not lawerly tomes with
>> riders and codicils extending into several volumes, which is what
>> some of the nit picking seems to require.
> I will agree that that was how the social contract was intended.
> I'm not sure that that's how the social contract is being used in
> this context.
The debian project resolves that blue is the color of the
sky, and will never knowingly issue another release ...
Hmm. That still makes some kind of sense. I mean, the first
clause of the sentence need not have any direct relation to the
social contract whatsoever. Indeed, I am beginning to think it does
not; we are just resolving to not compromise on freedom; freedom
related to librè software, but not narrowly defined as in the SC.
>> > And if you have two priorities, one of which you won't compromise
>> > on, and the other where nothing has been said about compromising,
>> > in a conflict where you have to choose between the two, the one
>> > that you won't compromise on automatically wins that conflict.
>> If I say Scylla is undefeatable, does that imply that charybdis is
> This isn't a great analogy, because [a] their undefeatability and
> unnavigability have already been "determined", and [b] you won't be
> in a position of authority over this aspect of either Scylla or
When I signed on to the social contract, the
uncompromisability of all the tenets of the SC were fixed in my
mind. Your mileage may vary. (umm, uncompromisability and
immutability are different, btw).
Since computers do the sending, however, it's possible to address a
single package to a mailing list of recipients with a shared interest
in the subject matter -- be it cold fusion or hot pornography. Joe
Abernathy <(C) 1990 Houston Chronicle>
Manoj Srivastava <email@example.com> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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